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	<title>Comments on: Pointing the Finger at Kadyrov</title>
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	<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/</link>
	<description>Russia Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow</description>
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		<title>By: Khabar</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/comment-page-1/#comment-195125</link>
		<dc:creator>Khabar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 00:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1286#comment-195125</guid>
		<description>Before Chechen&#039;s first war there was a massive fled of non-Chechen population from the region. Russians were killed, raped and ousted from their homes. These deeds are well-documented but no one is punished. And will never be punished. 
Human right activists don&#039;t recieve money for such things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before Chechen&#8217;s first war there was a massive fled of non-Chechen population from the region. Russians were killed, raped and ousted from their homes. These deeds are well-documented but no one is punished. And will never be punished.<br />
Human right activists don&#8217;t recieve money for such things.</p>
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		<title>By: Kolya</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/comment-page-1/#comment-195124</link>
		<dc:creator>Kolya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1286#comment-195124</guid>
		<description>Candide, you are either being dense or are being, yes, dishonest once again. And, oh, how you love straw men!

As you know there is a huge difference between actively supporting someone by providing him with funds and recognition (what the Kremlin is doing, so far, with Kadyrov) and isolating a regime militarily, diplomatically and economically (which is what the US was doing to Saddam before 2003.) The Kremlin is not treating Kadyrov the way the US treated Saddam in, say, 2000, or the way Bush treated Kim Jong-il.   

And by the way, I don&#039;t demand &quot;perfect justice&quot; because I know that it&#039;s an impossibility. If I demanded perfect justice I would, among other things, be clamoring for Cheney to be arrested and tried. I don&#039;t clamor that. That is not to say, however, that we should throw up our hands and not do anything. As the saying goes, politics is the art of the possible. 

So long, folks, I have to get going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Candide, you are either being dense or are being, yes, dishonest once again. And, oh, how you love straw men!</p>
<p>As you know there is a huge difference between actively supporting someone by providing him with funds and recognition (what the Kremlin is doing, so far, with Kadyrov) and isolating a regime militarily, diplomatically and economically (which is what the US was doing to Saddam before 2003.) The Kremlin is not treating Kadyrov the way the US treated Saddam in, say, 2000, or the way Bush treated Kim Jong-il.   </p>
<p>And by the way, I don&#8217;t demand &#8220;perfect justice&#8221; because I know that it&#8217;s an impossibility. If I demanded perfect justice I would, among other things, be clamoring for Cheney to be arrested and tried. I don&#8217;t clamor that. That is not to say, however, that we should throw up our hands and not do anything. As the saying goes, politics is the art of the possible. </p>
<p>So long, folks, I have to get going.</p>
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		<title>By: Candide</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/comment-page-1/#comment-195120</link>
		<dc:creator>Candide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1286#comment-195120</guid>
		<description>“…NOT to invade a foreign country by no means implies accomodation with its regime.”

Well, NOT to invade a rebellious province by no means implies accomodation with its ruler, either.

Damn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“…NOT to invade a foreign country by no means implies accomodation with its regime.”</p>
<p>Well, NOT to invade a rebellious province by no means implies accomodation with its ruler, either.</p>
<p>Damn.</p>
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		<title>By: Candide</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/comment-page-1/#comment-195119</link>
		<dc:creator>Candide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1286#comment-195119</guid>
		<description>A strong case can be made that Saddam in 2003 was even less independent actor than Kadyrov is now.

But let&#039;s dispose with technicalities, Kolya.  What we are talking about is Crimes and Punishments.  You judge Kadyrov guilty of crimes and demand him to be punished, absolutely.  Saddam, not so much.  Why the double standard?

Why do you spread tissues of lies, Kolya?

Like this, &quot;...NOT to invade a foreign country by no means implies accomodation with its regime.&quot;

Well, NOT to invade a  by no means implies accomodation with its , either.

Or like this, &quot;It’s stupid to equate the trying to economically and diplomatically isolate a government with providing funds and support to a government.&quot;

Both Kadyrov and Saddam terrorized their countries and murdered their opponents.  You might try to draw distinctions and say that Russian government was &quot;supporting&quot; Kadyrov while the US government was &quot;opposing&quot; Saddam, but for those Chechens and Iraqis who were starved, terrorized and murdered there was no difference.

Isn&#039;t it good to see a cruel despot to hang off the end of the rope once in a while?  According to you, apparently not, when your Party talking points says so.

By the way, to demand perfect justice done in this imperfect world in a few isolated selected cases only, is the greatest &quot;intellectual dishonesty&quot; of them all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A strong case can be made that Saddam in 2003 was even less independent actor than Kadyrov is now.</p>
<p>But let&#8217;s dispose with technicalities, Kolya.  What we are talking about is Crimes and Punishments.  You judge Kadyrov guilty of crimes and demand him to be punished, absolutely.  Saddam, not so much.  Why the double standard?</p>
<p>Why do you spread tissues of lies, Kolya?</p>
<p>Like this, &#8220;&#8230;NOT to invade a foreign country by no means implies accomodation with its regime.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, NOT to invade a  by no means implies accomodation with its , either.</p>
<p>Or like this, &#8220;It’s stupid to equate the trying to economically and diplomatically isolate a government with providing funds and support to a government.&#8221;</p>
<p>Both Kadyrov and Saddam terrorized their countries and murdered their opponents.  You might try to draw distinctions and say that Russian government was &#8220;supporting&#8221; Kadyrov while the US government was &#8220;opposing&#8221; Saddam, but for those Chechens and Iraqis who were starved, terrorized and murdered there was no difference.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it good to see a cruel despot to hang off the end of the rope once in a while?  According to you, apparently not, when your Party talking points says so.</p>
<p>By the way, to demand perfect justice done in this imperfect world in a few isolated selected cases only, is the greatest &#8220;intellectual dishonesty&#8221; of them all.</p>
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		<title>By: Khabar</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/comment-page-1/#comment-195112</link>
		<dc:creator>Khabar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1286#comment-195112</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;&gt;I think the difference is that Bush didn’t put Saddam in power, while Putin put Kadyrov there.

...which turned into human-right catastrophe for Iraqis. Many still love Saddam for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;I think the difference is that Bush didn’t put Saddam in power, while Putin put Kadyrov there.</p>
<p>&#8230;which turned into human-right catastrophe for Iraqis. Many still love Saddam for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Kolya</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/comment-page-1/#comment-195111</link>
		<dc:creator>Kolya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1286#comment-195111</guid>
		<description>Exactly right, Sean. In addition, NOT to invade a foreign country by no means implies accomodation with its regime. It&#039;s stupid to equate the trying to economically and diplomatically isolate a government with providing funds and support to a government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly right, Sean. In addition, NOT to invade a foreign country by no means implies accomodation with its regime. It&#8217;s stupid to equate the trying to economically and diplomatically isolate a government with providing funds and support to a government.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/comment-page-1/#comment-195109</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1286#comment-195109</guid>
		<description>I think the difference is that Bush didn&#039;t put Saddam in power, while Putin put Kadyrov there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the difference is that Bush didn&#8217;t put Saddam in power, while Putin put Kadyrov there.</p>
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		<title>By: Candide</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/comment-page-1/#comment-195108</link>
		<dc:creator>Candide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1286#comment-195108</guid>
		<description>Kolya,

I can&#039;t help but notice that while you insist that Putin&#039;s accomodation with Kadyrov is an abomination, you would be perfectly comfortable with Bush leaving Saddam in charge of Iraq.

P.S. Please, lay off with the dated &quot;intellectual honesty&quot; schtick, it&#039;s gotten old long time ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kolya,</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t help but notice that while you insist that Putin&#8217;s accomodation with Kadyrov is an abomination, you would be perfectly comfortable with Bush leaving Saddam in charge of Iraq.</p>
<p>P.S. Please, lay off with the dated &#8220;intellectual honesty&#8221; schtick, it&#8217;s gotten old long time ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Khabar</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/comment-page-1/#comment-195104</link>
		<dc:creator>Khabar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 03:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1286#comment-195104</guid>
		<description>Of course, Chechnya is independant country, they use different currency, they have different army which doen&#039;t participate in Russia&#039;s operations abroad, they have their spirit leaders in Saudi Arabia...
What else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, Chechnya is independant country, they use different currency, they have different army which doen&#8217;t participate in Russia&#8217;s operations abroad, they have their spirit leaders in Saudi Arabia&#8230;<br />
What else?</p>
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		<title>By: Aleks</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/17/pointing-the-finger-at-kadyrov/comment-page-1/#comment-195100</link>
		<dc:creator>Aleks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1286#comment-195100</guid>
		<description>Periscope depth...Suface!

I&#039;m surprised about the two analyst&#039;s statements in the article, i.e. &#039;Moscow is in charge&#039; &amp; &#039;Kadyrov is up the creek&#039;.  

I&#039;m sure that I read only a couple of weeks ago that Putin had put Kadyrov in charge of Ingushetia&#039;s security, i.e. a clear recognition that even his replacement of the Ingush President (and others) has been a failure.

It appears to me that Kremlin is quite worried as it has realized its effective tools are somewhat limited, hence Kadyrov being handled the mantle (poisoned alice if you will).

Of course while I agree with Chris that Chechnya is &#039;de facto&#039; independent, hanging over this is that Putin has demonstrably shown that he has no qualms over bringing down a considerable sh*tstorm of death to the rebels and anyone nearby after the Daghestani escapade and doesn&#039;t care what the outside world says. Any future conflict chechen rebels would be facing a much(!) better trained and equipped russian army too.

Sometimes I think this is the same real strategic rationale used by the west in Afghanistan et al.  It is not, I will win at whatever cost, but I will make you bleed and bleed and bleed &#039;till you decided you want to talk, preferring to kill lots of civilians by &#039;accident&#039;, collateral damage&#039; to save precious soldiers lives.  This of course failed in Vietnam, but not every country is far away and not every enemy are like the vietnamese.

My qualms a really that the Ingush really, really don&#039;t like and don&#039;t want the wideboys of the caucasus muscling in on them (Ikcherian(sp?) Republic &#039;n&#039; all that), not to mention the Daghestanis etc.

What will/can the Kremlin do if Kadyrov cannot contain the situation in Ingushetia???

As for the whacking of Estermirova, I&#039;m not sure &#039;masterminded&#039; is in any comprehension really applicable, certainly not a word I would use in association with Kadyrov or his willing flunkies.  Maybe he would be a mastermind if he found a legal way to avoid his parking fines rather than having the meter maid/cop killed and his/her boss fired... /pedantry.  Killing Estermirova like that is about as clever as killing someone with radioactive material...though one should never let common sense get in the way of a good story!

&quot;Strange things are afoot at the CircleK&quot;

Dive, dive, dive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Periscope depth&#8230;Suface!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m surprised about the two analyst&#8217;s statements in the article, i.e. &#8216;Moscow is in charge&#8217; &amp; &#8216;Kadyrov is up the creek&#8217;.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that I read only a couple of weeks ago that Putin had put Kadyrov in charge of Ingushetia&#8217;s security, i.e. a clear recognition that even his replacement of the Ingush President (and others) has been a failure.</p>
<p>It appears to me that Kremlin is quite worried as it has realized its effective tools are somewhat limited, hence Kadyrov being handled the mantle (poisoned alice if you will).</p>
<p>Of course while I agree with Chris that Chechnya is &#8216;de facto&#8217; independent, hanging over this is that Putin has demonstrably shown that he has no qualms over bringing down a considerable sh*tstorm of death to the rebels and anyone nearby after the Daghestani escapade and doesn&#8217;t care what the outside world says. Any future conflict chechen rebels would be facing a much(!) better trained and equipped russian army too.</p>
<p>Sometimes I think this is the same real strategic rationale used by the west in Afghanistan et al.  It is not, I will win at whatever cost, but I will make you bleed and bleed and bleed &#8217;till you decided you want to talk, preferring to kill lots of civilians by &#8216;accident&#8217;, collateral damage&#8217; to save precious soldiers lives.  This of course failed in Vietnam, but not every country is far away and not every enemy are like the vietnamese.</p>
<p>My qualms a really that the Ingush really, really don&#8217;t like and don&#8217;t want the wideboys of the caucasus muscling in on them (Ikcherian(sp?) Republic &#8216;n&#8217; all that), not to mention the Daghestanis etc.</p>
<p>What will/can the Kremlin do if Kadyrov cannot contain the situation in Ingushetia???</p>
<p>As for the whacking of Estermirova, I&#8217;m not sure &#8216;masterminded&#8217; is in any comprehension really applicable, certainly not a word I would use in association with Kadyrov or his willing flunkies.  Maybe he would be a mastermind if he found a legal way to avoid his parking fines rather than having the meter maid/cop killed and his/her boss fired&#8230; /pedantry.  Killing Estermirova like that is about as clever as killing someone with radioactive material&#8230;though one should never let common sense get in the way of a good story!</p>
<p>&#8220;Strange things are afoot at the CircleK&#8221;</p>
<p>Dive, dive, dive.</p>
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