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	<title>Comments on: Another Casualty of the &#8220;Russian Abu Ghraib&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/</link>
	<description>Russia Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow</description>
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		<title>By: Candide</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/comment-page-1/#comment-195054</link>
		<dc:creator>Candide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1282#comment-195054</guid>
		<description>Friend Doom gets easily agitated, talks non-stop and can&#039;t make anything clear.

What Doomsik is trying to say, &quot;Putin is innocent!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Friend Doom gets easily agitated, talks non-stop and can&#8217;t make anything clear.</p>
<p>What Doomsik is trying to say, &#8220;Putin is innocent!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Khabar</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/comment-page-1/#comment-195053</link>
		<dc:creator>Khabar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 04:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1282#comment-195053</guid>
		<description>A pre-emprtive strike of the pure-Islam followers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A pre-emprtive strike of the pure-Islam followers?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Von Doom</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/comment-page-1/#comment-195052</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Von Doom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1282#comment-195052</guid>
		<description>Note pivotal phrase:

&quot;And Estemirova’s killers must have believed in Estemirova – believed in her power, believed in the danger she presented to them and their methods&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note pivotal phrase:</p>
<p>&#8220;And Estemirova’s killers must have believed in Estemirova – believed in her power, believed in the danger she presented to them and their methods&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Von Doom</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/comment-page-1/#comment-195051</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Von Doom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1282#comment-195051</guid>
		<description>No it doesn&#039;t. It presupposes that she was killed because somebody thought she posed a danger. If I am some street thug and kill somebody because I want their money or shoes, I did not kill them because I felt threatened by them, but because I wanted their money or shoes. If I am somebody who kills somebody else who I feel wronged me, I do not do so because I feel that they are a danger, but because I feel that justice requires that they die. (The latter actually being a common motivation in Chechnya,)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No it doesn&#8217;t. It presupposes that she was killed because somebody thought she posed a danger. If I am some street thug and kill somebody because I want their money or shoes, I did not kill them because I felt threatened by them, but because I wanted their money or shoes. If I am somebody who kills somebody else who I feel wronged me, I do not do so because I feel that they are a danger, but because I feel that justice requires that they die. (The latter actually being a common motivation in Chechnya,)</p>
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		<title>By: poemless</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/comment-page-1/#comment-195050</link>
		<dc:creator>poemless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1282#comment-195050</guid>
		<description>It only presupposes that someone thought she was important enough to kill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It only presupposes that someone thought she was important enough to kill.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Von Doom</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/comment-page-1/#comment-195049</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Von Doom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1282#comment-195049</guid>
		<description>Or a provocation.

It presupposes that the murder was done because somebody felt threatened by her, and not because they were offended by her or wanted to use her as a tool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or a provocation.</p>
<p>It presupposes that the murder was done because somebody felt threatened by her, and not because they were offended by her or wanted to use her as a tool.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Von Doom</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/comment-page-1/#comment-195048</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Von Doom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1282#comment-195048</guid>
		<description>&quot;And Estemirova’s killers must have believed in Estemirova – believed in her power, believed in the danger she presented to them and their methods&quot;

Not if it was a revenge killing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And Estemirova’s killers must have believed in Estemirova – believed in her power, believed in the danger she presented to them and their methods&#8221;</p>
<p>Not if it was a revenge killing.</p>
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		<title>By: poemless</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/comment-page-1/#comment-195047</link>
		<dc:creator>poemless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1282#comment-195047</guid>
		<description>Well, I was going to say something about the &quot;cult of Natasha...&quot;  (I just made that up, but I think there is a weird obsession with pitying/mythologyzing Russian women named Natasha.)  Then I thought, Oh, I should go see what Natalia Antonova has to say about this.

I thought I&#039;d share since it&#039;s not something you&#039;re likely to find in our male-dominated Russia-experto-blogo-sphere.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://globalcomment.com/2009/do-natalia-estemirovas-killers-feel-like-big-strong-men/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Do Natalia Estemirova’s killers feel like big, strong men?&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Estemirova worked in the Caucus, arguably one of the most macho regions of macho Russia. She investigated human rights abuse in Chechnya. Although internationally, consensus has already been reached and “pro-government” figures are thought as the likely culprits, the truth is, this woman could have crossed just about anyone. In a region with a history of war and ongoing violence, plenty of people may have wanted Natalia Estemirova dead.

People are used to seeing Russia as a place with top-down murder conspiracies that inevitably originate in the Kremlin. The truth is, Russia is a huge place that still operates under the saying “the sky is high, the Czar is far” – meaning that both great distances and cultural and ideological barriers make enforcing both the law and private interests in Moscow much different than from enforcing them in, say, Ingushetia, where Estemirova’s body was found. This isn’t to say that Estemirova was a particularly “convenient” person for existing power structures in the Caucus.

What I keep coming back to, however, isn’t the mystery of Estemirova’s death, but that which is most obvious about it. You destroy that which you believe in. And Estemirova’s killers must have believed in Estemirova – believed in her power, believed in the danger she presented to them and their methods – especially when you consider the fact that she was kidnapped in plain sight, a gesture as terrifying as it is symbolic.

Both outsiders and many Russians themselves have a mythologizing approach toward Russian and, in general, Slavic femininity. A “real” Russian woman is beautiful, of course, and, what’s more important, she does not “threaten” a man’s view of himself as fundamentally better. This is a fantasy that is belied by the existence of women like Natalia Estemirova, the ones who, like their male counterparts, can only be subdued with a gun.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I was going to say something about the &#8220;cult of Natasha&#8230;&#8221;  (I just made that up, but I think there is a weird obsession with pitying/mythologyzing Russian women named Natasha.)  Then I thought, Oh, I should go see what Natalia Antonova has to say about this.</p>
<p>I thought I&#8217;d share since it&#8217;s not something you&#8217;re likely to find in our male-dominated Russia-experto-blogo-sphere.</p>
<p><a href="http://globalcomment.com/2009/do-natalia-estemirovas-killers-feel-like-big-strong-men/" rel="nofollow">Do Natalia Estemirova’s killers feel like big, strong men?</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Estemirova worked in the Caucus, arguably one of the most macho regions of macho Russia. She investigated human rights abuse in Chechnya. Although internationally, consensus has already been reached and “pro-government” figures are thought as the likely culprits, the truth is, this woman could have crossed just about anyone. In a region with a history of war and ongoing violence, plenty of people may have wanted Natalia Estemirova dead.</p>
<p>People are used to seeing Russia as a place with top-down murder conspiracies that inevitably originate in the Kremlin. The truth is, Russia is a huge place that still operates under the saying “the sky is high, the Czar is far” – meaning that both great distances and cultural and ideological barriers make enforcing both the law and private interests in Moscow much different than from enforcing them in, say, Ingushetia, where Estemirova’s body was found. This isn’t to say that Estemirova was a particularly “convenient” person for existing power structures in the Caucus.</p>
<p>What I keep coming back to, however, isn’t the mystery of Estemirova’s death, but that which is most obvious about it. You destroy that which you believe in. And Estemirova’s killers must have believed in Estemirova – believed in her power, believed in the danger she presented to them and their methods – especially when you consider the fact that she was kidnapped in plain sight, a gesture as terrifying as it is symbolic.</p>
<p>Both outsiders and many Russians themselves have a mythologizing approach toward Russian and, in general, Slavic femininity. A “real” Russian woman is beautiful, of course, and, what’s more important, she does not “threaten” a man’s view of himself as fundamentally better. This is a fantasy that is belied by the existence of women like Natalia Estemirova, the ones who, like their male counterparts, can only be subdued with a gun.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Chris Von Doom</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/comment-page-1/#comment-195046</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Von Doom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1282#comment-195046</guid>
		<description>WTF? Why are people refering to her by her first name?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WTF? Why are people refering to her by her first name?</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2009/07/15/another-casualty-of-the-russian-abu-ghraib/comment-page-1/#comment-195045</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=1282#comment-195045</guid>
		<description>David Remnick at the New Yorker writes about Natalia, and includes some audio.

http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2009/07/audio_david_remnick_on_natalia_estemirova.htm

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2009/07/david-remnick-natalia-estemirova.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Remnick at the New Yorker writes about Natalia, and includes some audio.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2009/07/audio_david_remnick_on_natalia_estemirova.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2009/07/audio_david_remnick_on_natalia_estemirova.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2009/07/david-remnick-natalia-estemirova.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2009/07/david-remnick-natalia-estemirova.html</a></p>
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