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	<title>Comments on: (Un)documenting Stalinism?</title>
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	<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/</link>
	<description>Russia Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow</description>
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		<title>By: Dmitry Mdevedev</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/comment-page-4/#comment-152348</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitry Mdevedev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=905#comment-152348</guid>
		<description>back, actually nobody heard from them

You should talk to Upravlenie FSB of the region where members of your family had been arrested. UFSBs keeps the records and are in charge of answering such inquiries.
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They were arrested not in Russia proper, but perished (presumably) in Siberia. Thanks for the tip though</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>back, actually nobody heard from them</p>
<p>You should talk to Upravlenie FSB of the region where members of your family had been arrested. UFSBs keeps the records and are in charge of answering such inquiries.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
They were arrested not in Russia proper, but perished (presumably) in Siberia. Thanks for the tip though</p>
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		<title>By: ivanov</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/comment-page-4/#comment-152326</link>
		<dc:creator>ivanov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=905#comment-152326</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;for me it’s hard to judge, for those members of my family what ended up in GULAG, never came back, actually nobody heard from them&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You should talk to Upravlenie FSB of the region where members of your family had been arrested. UFSBs keeps the records and are in charge of answering such inquiries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>for me it’s hard to judge, for those members of my family what ended up in GULAG, never came back, actually nobody heard from them</p></blockquote>
<p>You should talk to Upravlenie FSB of the region where members of your family had been arrested. UFSBs keeps the records and are in charge of answering such inquiries.</p>
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		<title>By: Chrisius Courtappointedrussiafriendlius</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/comment-page-4/#comment-152082</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrisius Courtappointedrussiafriendlius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=905#comment-152082</guid>
		<description>Although it is true AFAIK that the Gulag was inefficient, which IIRC is one reason why Beria (not Khrushchev, BERIA) had it closed down. But that was not the point, which to a large extent was to develop areas of the USSR where people would not willingly go to work. Inefficient work is better than no work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although it is true AFAIK that the Gulag was inefficient, which IIRC is one reason why Beria (not Khrushchev, BERIA) had it closed down. But that was not the point, which to a large extent was to develop areas of the USSR where people would not willingly go to work. Inefficient work is better than no work.</p>
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		<title>By: Chrisius Courtappointedrussiafriendlius</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/comment-page-4/#comment-152081</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrisius Courtappointedrussiafriendlius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=905#comment-152081</guid>
		<description>Solzhenitsyn was not a historian and Gulag Archipelago, taken as a work of history rather than as a former zek throwing his clippings on the floor, is crap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Solzhenitsyn was not a historian and Gulag Archipelago, taken as a work of history rather than as a former zek throwing his clippings on the floor, is crap.</p>
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		<title>By: Russian President (a.k.a. False Dmitry)</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/comment-page-4/#comment-152047</link>
		<dc:creator>Russian President (a.k.a. False Dmitry)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=905#comment-152047</guid>
		<description>Overall, the slave labor (according to “Archiplag GULAG by Solzhenitcyn) didn’t produce high quality work.

I guess A-bomb was of very good quality ;)

Also in many cases the conditions of “free” workers were same or worth. As I told - one of my grandfathers survived the War in camps (1939-1949) but other one - “free” - died in 1941 as result of hard work, little food and lack of doctors (many of them were in Gulag - treating Solzhenitsyn).
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Ivanov, 

for me it&#039;s hard to judge, for those members of my family what ended up in GULAG, never came back, actually nobody heard from them (once they were arrested) or knows where they are buried. Maybe there were doctors, I don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Overall, the slave labor (according to “Archiplag GULAG by Solzhenitcyn) didn’t produce high quality work.</p>
<p>I guess A-bomb was of very good quality <img src='http://seansrussiablog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Also in many cases the conditions of “free” workers were same or worth. As I told &#8211; one of my grandfathers survived the War in camps (1939-1949) but other one &#8211; “free” &#8211; died in 1941 as result of hard work, little food and lack of doctors (many of them were in Gulag &#8211; treating Solzhenitsyn).<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Ivanov, </p>
<p>for me it&#8217;s hard to judge, for those members of my family what ended up in GULAG, never came back, actually nobody heard from them (once they were arrested) or knows where they are buried. Maybe there were doctors, I don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Chrisius Courtappointedrussiafriendlius</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/comment-page-4/#comment-151788</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrisius Courtappointedrussiafriendlius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=905#comment-151788</guid>
		<description>&quot;That’s true. Our biology (including our behavior, social and otherwise) is adapted to small groups. The vast majority of our time as Homo sapiens was spent in rather small groups (hundred or fewer).&quot;

This is why (IMHO), our capacity for sympathy/empathy/outrage turns off after a period of time exceeding three generations (the period of time in which one could have actually known people from previous eras). The murders committed by Stalin and Hitler and Pol Pot create outrage, but those committed by Nero or Genghis Khan are purely academic, even though all will real. If you were to stick Aunt Mable&#039;s corpse in a case and set it up for public viewing, that would be an abomination, but you can do it with an Egyptian mummy. The catacombs of Paris are a tourist attraction. Few people worry about what the repercussions of our actions will be for people living hundreds or thousands of years in the future. This is because our minds do not handle large stretches of time well. If it&#039;s further back than our great-grandparents&#039; day, or further ahead than our great-grandchildren&#039;s, it might as well be fiction.

PS. in a few centuries, people will blow off the murders committed by Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot just like we blow off those of Nero and Genghis Khan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That’s true. Our biology (including our behavior, social and otherwise) is adapted to small groups. The vast majority of our time as Homo sapiens was spent in rather small groups (hundred or fewer).&#8221;</p>
<p>This is why (IMHO), our capacity for sympathy/empathy/outrage turns off after a period of time exceeding three generations (the period of time in which one could have actually known people from previous eras). The murders committed by Stalin and Hitler and Pol Pot create outrage, but those committed by Nero or Genghis Khan are purely academic, even though all will real. If you were to stick Aunt Mable&#8217;s corpse in a case and set it up for public viewing, that would be an abomination, but you can do it with an Egyptian mummy. The catacombs of Paris are a tourist attraction. Few people worry about what the repercussions of our actions will be for people living hundreds or thousands of years in the future. This is because our minds do not handle large stretches of time well. If it&#8217;s further back than our great-grandparents&#8217; day, or further ahead than our great-grandchildren&#8217;s, it might as well be fiction.</p>
<p>PS. in a few centuries, people will blow off the murders committed by Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot just like we blow off those of Nero and Genghis Khan.</p>
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		<title>By: ivanov</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/comment-page-4/#comment-151779</link>
		<dc:creator>ivanov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=905#comment-151779</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Overall, the slave labor (according to “Archiplag GULAG by Solzhenitcyn) didn’t produce high quality work.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I guess A-bomb was of very good quality ;)

Also in many cases the conditions of &quot;free&quot; workers were same or worth. As I told - one of my grandfathers survived the War in camps (1939-1949) but other one - &quot;free&quot; - died in 1941 as result of hard work, little food and lack of doctors (many of them were in Gulag - treating Solzhenitsyn).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Overall, the slave labor (according to “Archiplag GULAG by Solzhenitcyn) didn’t produce high quality work.</p></blockquote>
<p>I guess A-bomb was of very good quality <img src='http://seansrussiablog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Also in many cases the conditions of &#8220;free&#8221; workers were same or worth. As I told &#8211; one of my grandfathers survived the War in camps (1939-1949) but other one &#8211; &#8220;free&#8221; &#8211; died in 1941 as result of hard work, little food and lack of doctors (many of them were in Gulag &#8211; treating Solzhenitsyn).</p>
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		<title>By: Russian President</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/comment-page-4/#comment-151597</link>
		<dc:creator>Russian President</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=905#comment-151597</guid>
		<description>Speaking of &quot;DOCUMENTED&quot; Stalinism. Just a friendly reminder to Sean that December 21, is Stalin&#039;s birthday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of &#8220;DOCUMENTED&#8221; Stalinism. Just a friendly reminder to Sean that December 21, is Stalin&#8217;s birthday.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyrill</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/comment-page-4/#comment-151423</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=905#comment-151423</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;On gulag labor, well my limited understanding of is that most gulag labor was used in mining, timber, and extracting other raw materials.&lt;/i&gt;

I do not know what proportions were, but I recall my grandfather&#039;s stories of building Murmansk and Kandalaksha railroads. He was the ГИП and according to him, most of the work was done by prison labour. He had some sort of a drinking relationship with the chief of the local labour camp that and he was not onbly allowed to look at the list of new arrivals, but also to keep several of convicts sort of paroled at his word. Not because the system was lenient (as the Tzar&#039;s system was when Lenin got exiled) but because even then a chiewf of a labour camp could have been bought денатуратом.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>On gulag labor, well my limited understanding of is that most gulag labor was used in mining, timber, and extracting other raw materials.</i></p>
<p>I do not know what proportions were, but I recall my grandfather&#8217;s stories of building Murmansk and Kandalaksha railroads. He was the ГИП and according to him, most of the work was done by prison labour. He had some sort of a drinking relationship with the chief of the local labour camp that and he was not onbly allowed to look at the list of new arrivals, but also to keep several of convicts sort of paroled at his word. Not because the system was lenient (as the Tzar&#8217;s system was when Lenin got exiled) but because even then a chiewf of a labour camp could have been bought денатуратом.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyrill</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/12/08/undocumenting-stalinism/comment-page-4/#comment-151420</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=905#comment-151420</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But I think it is important to recognize that this argument is based on an assumption that the Soviet Union would have been different, if not better, if Bukharin would have won (it is also worth noting that these people tend to be politically pro-Leninist but anti-Stalin).&lt;/i&gt;

Sometime in 1980-s  I happened to come across a book published in the USSR but out of print by then. It was Bukharin&#039;s Экономика переходного периода (or a shorter version of  задачи пролетариата в переходный период)  with Lenin&#039;s footnotes - the page was actually split into two columns for Bukharin&#039;s text and Lenin&#039;s. The amount of virtual blood in the book would make Freddy Kruger an Easter bunny. Stalin did not realty invent any of the terror methods. He borrowed quite heavily from Lenin, Bukharin and Trotsky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But I think it is important to recognize that this argument is based on an assumption that the Soviet Union would have been different, if not better, if Bukharin would have won (it is also worth noting that these people tend to be politically pro-Leninist but anti-Stalin).</i></p>
<p>Sometime in 1980-s  I happened to come across a book published in the USSR but out of print by then. It was Bukharin&#8217;s Экономика переходного периода (or a shorter version of  задачи пролетариата в переходный период)  with Lenin&#8217;s footnotes &#8211; the page was actually split into two columns for Bukharin&#8217;s text and Lenin&#8217;s. The amount of virtual blood in the book would make Freddy Kruger an Easter bunny. Stalin did not realty invent any of the terror methods. He borrowed quite heavily from Lenin, Bukharin and Trotsky.</p>
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