Anatol Lieven: “What is in fact better: authoritarian control from above or mass hysteria from below”?
By Sean at 17 September, 2008, 4:02 pm
Anatol Lieven’s “Lunch with Putin” deserves much thought and serious discussion. Here are his impressions from last week’s Valdai Discussion Club:
[T]here was another way in which the world seemed to revolve backward during the Valdai, which was if anything even more disturbing. During two lunches over the course of the conference, the president and prime minister of Russia spoke with us for a total of almost seven hours, answering unscripted questions without the help of aides. The foreign minister, deputy prime minister and deputy chief of the general staff spoke with us for several more hours. The chances of this happening in George Bush’s Washington, or indeed most other Western capitals, are zero.
On the other hand, I was told, several U.S. experts who had been invited refused to come because they were afraid that to be seen to talk with Russian leaders would hurt their chances of being selected for jobs in the next U.S. administration, or even their candidate’s chances of being elected president. In particular, they were afraid of attending a conference including meetings with the presidents of Abkhazia and South Ossetia—even though they had the option of not attending them. The idea that it was their duty as analysts to find out what these people are thinking evidently did not occur to them.
In the course of the discussions, we heard a great deal from Russian participants about Russian national interests, and about international peace, stability and cooperation against global threats; but not one word of ideology. The tone was sometimes harsh, but entirely pragmatic. On the other hand, from the U.S. administration and presidential candidates we’ve heard a flood of ideological clichés from the cold war about defending democracy and spreading freedom—platitudes with absolutely no relevance to the reasons for or the circumstances surrounding the war over South Ossetia.
Of course, taken as a whole, U.S. society is much more open and democratic than Russian society; but this is no longer necessarily true of American politicians or Washington elites when it comes to key issues of foreign policy. As for most of the U.S. media, its response to the war over South Ossetia demonstrated that it can on occasion be every bit as hysterically one-sided and willfully inaccurate as the Russian one. Indeed, in this case it was parts of the U.S. media which told by far the biggest single lie—namely the outrageous suggestion, in the face of all the known facts, that it was Russia and not Georgia that started this latest war.
Over the course of our lunch in Sochi, Vladimir Putin congratulated the U.S. media ironically on this performance—they acted “as if they had been given an order.” This raises the interesting question of what is in fact better: authoritarian control from above or mass hysteria from below. The way things are going, we will get plenty of opportunities to study this question in the years to come.
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I’m not sure…I’m not.
US “society” is not immune to weapons of mass brain distraction aka “free media”.
It takes decades to learn to read among printed lines and to be used to not believe a word
Open a democratic society where majority believed in Saddam’s WMD just because NTY, ABC ETC. were telling this?
I met with these open and democratic Americans. Yes, they were open, democratic and educated – and without any clue about Russia except that it’s terrible. They even were surprised that Russian – me – speaks English (and had two legs and one head).
I have a friend in US. Very wise man who knows
hell a lot about Russia (USSR actually). Or knew? And who tells me now what Putin is saying about this and that. Well, he doesn’t speak nor read Russian no need to say he’s never heard Putin. I heard Bush, Condy, Palin and Putin. He is Republican though.
Well, my moto is “F..ck democracy” (I have no idea what “open” mean).
So I’m not sure. What is the point to be open about flat Earth that stands on three elephant?
The fact that the doctored Fox videos of that Ossetian-American girl and her aunt was shown in Russian TV is only one proof among many that the US press/media is in much better shape and freer from state pressure than the Russian press/media. This self-evident truth, though, does not absolve the American press/media. I was indeed very disappointed by the knee-jerk and tendentious coverage of the Georgia-Russia conflict by the American press. It was actually an eye-opener. Frankly, I did not expect that. On the other hand, I find it laughable that some folks in Russia seem to seriously believe that the US press is just as bad as the Russian press.
“Of course, taken as a whole, U.S. society is much more open and democratic than Russian society”
No one can seriously dispute this. As Lieven pointed out, though, this does not mean that there are no serious problems with the US–problems that became worse after 9/11.
And yes, I’m impressed by the Valdai Discussion Club performance of Putin and Medvedev. It is a sad fact that Lieven is correct when he writes:
“the president and prime minister of Russia spoke with us for a total of almost seven hours, answering unscripted questions without the help of aides. … The chances of this happening in George Bush’s Washington, or indeed most other Western capitals, are zero.”
Sean,
It is funny I was actually tempted to call your attention to that article when I read it this morning. There is also a good analysis of the Georgia situation in the New York Review of Books this week.
Thanks for being one of the only tolerable commentators on Russia these days.
Best,
Andy
(a fellow Russian history tovarishch from university of illinois)
“Of course, taken as a whole, U.S. society is much more open and democratic than Russian society;
I’m not sure…I’m not.”
-I think we are more open and democratic to the extent that generally the authorities do not actively suppress opposing views. Nonetheless, what you say is true because, though we may be open and democratic, this does not mean that people take advantage of it. It’s almost like a democratic market failure, because the format in which we deliver information – short soundbites – narrows the number of views that are presented. Also, our ‘open’ political system allows special interests to group together and hire lobbyists.
During two lunches over the course of the conference, the president and prime minister of Russia spoke with us for a total of almost seven hours, answering unscripted questions without the help of aides.
I’ll reserve judgement on this until we see what questions were asked and the answers given. Is Lieven going to publish them?
Tim!
Are you deaf and blind?
I posted the link to Medvedev’s answers days ago! As well as quotes from them.
You can find all stuff at kremlin.ru (need to check Putin’s site URL as he is now Prime Minister).
“I’ll reserve judgement on this until we see what questions were asked and the answers given. Is Lieven going to publish them?
”
The entire transcript is on JRL.
Sorry, Tim, I overestimated western openess and democracy but here are interviews of Medvedev in English
http://kremlin.ru/eng/sdocs/speeches.shtml?stype=82916
Putin’s chronicles
Anatol Lieven is a famed and brilliant journalist and commentator.
Anatoli Lieven, on the other hand, made an appearance in Super Mario Brothers.
They even were surprised that Russian – me – speaks English
Oh sure, and I’ve never met a Russian who was surprised at an American speaking Russian (not that I speak very well.)
Usually the first question is “who taught you?” asked almost in the sense of “who betrayed the motherland and taught you the secret Russian language.” And, in fact, I think very few believe me when I answer.
There are so many Russians in the US these days that I find it hard to believe that an American would be surprised that you speak English. However, my wife did encounter a woman yesterday, who upon learning she was Russian, asked “So, is it true that you have vodka with every meal? I know they always bring vodka to the table in Russian restaurants, like it was water …”
Regarding the US, democracy, and news media … I think there is an unhealthy lack of skepticism in the United States these days. Some of it is tied to this ignorance that masquerades as a false patriotism – a condition that has only grown since 9/11. You know, the “you are either wid us or against us” type of thinking, instantly labeling anyone who doesn’t support war in Iraq as “not supporting our troops” and various other idiotic labels which the GOP uses to their advantage to divide and conquer the American populace.
Our news media is largely lazy and also devoid of skepticism. I think there is also a lack of journalistic pride and a acceptance that they are involved in a strictly commercial venture. They have been taught that asking the tough questions and demanding solid answers from politicians means they will not have access to information.
I witnessed an interview of Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia by Leslie Stahl over the weekend. They had a brief discussion regarding torture, which Scalia implied was constitutional. Stahl asks, “isn’t it ‘cruel and unusual punishment’” and Scalia says, “punishment? punishment for what … they haven’t been convicted of a crime”
Stahl bought it hook, line, and sinker, laughing at his jokes, selling such idiocy to the American public, while I shout at the screen “PUNISHMENT for WITHHOLDING INFORMATION you DUMB SHMUCK!”
“Usually the first question is “who taught you?” asked almost in the sense of “who betrayed the motherland and taught you the secret Russian language.” And, in fact, I think very few believe me when I answer.”
Really? Most Russians I meet of noncosmopolitan background (working class, say) seem to assume that everybody speaks Russian.
Nobody’s surprised when I speak Russian. I think they assume I’m a Seb or a Pole (I have been confused with both on multiple occasions). Very often people havd not believed me when I told them I was from the States.
With respect to the media, I think there is often an assumption that “freer” means “better,” which ain’t necessarily so.
“There are so many Russians in the US these days”
Beware, America! Pretext for invasion?
All of this is very interesting not least because it is pretty much what I have been writing for some time now.
The point is that the Western media is so organised that on certain subjects, usually foreign policy matters, about which the average citizen knows little and cares less, it is possible for a totally distorted message to go out challenged only by a few commentators who tend to be drowned out. The internet is however having an effect as journalists and editors do not like to look like idiots and are forced to print stories and comments that are not just government speak. The media battle over what happened in South Ossetia is part of this new conflict in the media. You have the initial government inspired media onslaught that is then to some extent corrected by inconvenient realities emerging on the internet.
The most damaging result of the all this the contempt felt for democratic countries that allow this to happen and then lecture Russia China et al on press freedom and democracy. This effect is reinforced by the fact that what is boring foreign news in the West may be 100% domestic and all too interesting where it is all happening.
”Nobody’s surprised when I speak Russian. I think they assume I’m a Seb or a Pole (I have been confused with both on multiple occasions). Very often people havd not believed me when I told them I was from the States.”
Everybody’s suprised when I speak (my atrocious) Russian with my thick Paddy accent. I have to say that Russians are very polite about foreigners speaking Russian, always smile when they first realise you can speak a bit and seem almost grateful you bothered learning it. It also helps no end chatting up women in clubs. Compare this with the French and Italians, who are totally impatient with foreign learners and can be quite rude and unhelpful.
“Everybody’s suprised when I speak (my atrocious) Russian with my thick Paddy accent.”
They think you’re Bono.
The entire transcript is on JRL.
I can’t find it!
Are you deaf and blind?
No, I just tend to ignore your posts.
I think I still have it. Give me your email and I’ll send it to you.
JRL’s search function is notoriously crap.
Hmm. That’s probably going to get me a ton of spam, isn’t it?
Worst case scenario is that I end up getting Averko’s spam again!
Hmmm. I may have deleted it. Excuse me while I browse.
Hmmm. I may have deleted it. Excuse me while I browse.
If you can’t find it (my Russian is not good enough to translate it from original), can you tell me if the questions were the type a good western journalist would ask a western politician?
A President giving a free interview in itself means nothing. I remember the appalling charade between Tony Benn and Saddam Hussein.
If the journalist asks good questions requiring a good answer (and I don’t mean the question begging shite they normally come out with), then kudos to Medvedev for letting the interview run. Most presidents would shit a brick at the thought.
Sean, could you please delete the comment with my email address on? I don’t want it on the internet forever, just this is the only address I can access on this damned platform. Thanks.
Just sent it.
Cheers!
“Everybody’s suprised when I speak (my atrocious) Russian with my thick Paddy accent.”
They think you’re Bono.”
Bono’s accent is weird and highly irritating even to us here. It belongs really to no province or city of Ireland, though i suppose there’s a bit of posh South Dublin in it. Principally though he sounds like someone who badly needs to have a poo.
”JRL’s search function is notoriously crap.”
This is unfortunately true. In fact the whole website is a bit outdated. Still its hard to fault the man, he does a good service especially for the likes of me with my bad Russian.
I see the Russians have closed the MICEX and the RTS again. As an Irish commentator said today on the news ”its an innovative way of preventing share price collapse”:-)
Just as a point of interest, is the shit hitting the fan on the ground on in Moscow Chris? Have you noticed people losing their jobs, closures, or anything like that? I take it Tim you are sheltered from all this madness over on Lunskoye.
“Just as a point of interest, is the shit hitting the fan on the ground on in Moscow Chris? Have you noticed people losing their jobs, closures, or anything like that?”
No. It’s not like the New York or London or Berlin stock exchange collapsing; it’s not as important for a “developing” country. This happens to the Chinese exchange regularly.
“It belongs really to no province or city of Ireland, though i suppose there’s a bit of posh South Dublin in it.”
Isn’t he of working class origin?
I take it Tim you are sheltered from all this madness over on Lunskoye.
I am. Being in an oil company, we’re all pretty much protected. Our jobs become at risk when the oil price collapses, which would need to be at about $30 per barrel for that to happen.
He’s absolutely right though about Russia being very pragmatic with the US being, as always, rather ideological about stuff. This is hardly surprising. The US was founded on ideology, take the ideology out of the US and you’re left with, well, Britain and bits of Europe.
Russia, having spent seventy years fighting an ideological war and losing badly, has reverted to pragmatism.
Of a far more interesting question than nonsense about the merits of authoritarianism over mass hysteria is which is likely to outlast the other, and which is likely to produce the better results for their citizens and everyone else: American ideology about freedom and democracy, or Russian pragmatism?
In Lieven’s own words: the way things are going, we will get plenty of opportunities to study this question in the years to come.
Hmm. That’s probably going to get me a ton of spam, isn’t it?
Worst case scenario is that I end up getting Averko’s spam again!
Tim, I deleted the comment with your email. I figured it was better to remove it so you don’t get spammed.
Oops. I deleted it before I saw the request. Anyway, Averko averted!
”No. It’s not like the New York or London or Berlin stock exchange collapsing; it’s not as important for a “developing” country. This happens to the Chinese exchange regularly.”
Am glad to hear it , genuinely. I know I moan a lot about Russia, but I’d hate to see them slipping into the mire that Ireland, Britain and the US are in now. Its good that people are still working and hopefully jobs being created.
”Isn’t he of working class origin?”
He is, but he lives in super-posh Dalkey in South Co. Dublin and has done for many years, and his accent has changed considerably as a result. The knob-end.
”I am. Being in an oil company, we’re all pretty much protected. Our jobs become at risk when the oil price collapses, which would need to be at about $30 per barrel for that to happen.”
Well that sure isnt going to happen I daresay. How’s the work going? Is the weather alright?
“Putins Chronicles”
Great name for an action movie.
Thanks Chris, for the transcript. Some of the questions are good, but there’s nothing in there which a western president would face were the audience not screened. And take this:
Bridget Kendall:
I think that during this crisis
you had to take not only a very difficult decision regarding military
action, the beginning of military hostilities, but a political decision
as well, and one that was difficult to accept: to recognize the
independence of the Republic of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. One reason
that such a situation is difficult is that a unilateral decision had to
be taken. And your western partners still subscribe to the old
stereotypes in terms of relations with the Soviet Union.
This is arse-licking, not journalism.
Isn’t Kendall known for that sort of thing? Or am I confusing her with somebody else?
I liked the bit with Cohen.
Isn’t Kendall known for that sort of thing? Or am I confusing her with somebody else?
I dunno. I know there is no shortage of journalists asking questions like that. Communist dictators used to love them.
I liked Marshall Goldman’s question, and thought Medvedev answered it well. And I would probably say Medvedev means it when he says he’s going to try to stamp out corruption. But I think he’s got no more chance of doing that than Bush has of bringing peace to the Middle East.
Then it’s you problem…
Feel free to base you opinion on Russian TV
Really? Most Russians I meet of noncosmopolitan background (working class, say) seem to assume that everybody speaks Russian
I’ve never encountered this at all. Generally I get real surprise, maybe a congratulation or compliment, and then asked “who taught you?” generally asked with a suspicious undertone.
Of course, you live and work there in Moscow and I think it should be expected that you speak Russian. The Russians I encounter are more often here in the US, traveling abroad, or outside of Moscow (generally when in Russia I get the hell out of Moscow as fast as possible). Generally it isn’t too difficult to spot someone as Russian here in the US … I joke with Katja that a significant percentage dress wear too much black and overdress compared to Americans.
Plus, they aren’t as often grossly obese. It’s always a bit of a shock after visiting Russia or Central Asia and returning to the US and seeing how obese (or tall after Central Asia) everyone is here.
Occasionally someone (generally an older Russian, when I am in Russia) will presume I am Russian myself, and begin speaking to me or asking a question, and I stumble to reply. I remember an older gentleman in 2003 talking to me about the Celine Dion video for “Drive All Night” that was on the big screen in Sheremetyevo airport. He tapped my arm, and said something admiring and slightly crude, along the lines of “I’d hit that”. It takes a moment for my brain to boot-up Russian, if I am thinking in English (not sure if others take a moment to switch languages also).
Sometimes I am mistaken for a German … seems I am rarely spotted as an American, even though I think it is fairly obvious.
Related topic – I find my first sentence or two in Russian is rough, and then I sort of slip into what I consider a Russian style of pronunciation (or as close to it as I can get with my ill-mannered American tongue).
“Putins Chronicles” (c) ivanov_su
Thanks but no thanks! I’m almost forgot to add (c)
So that prisons should vanish forever, we built new ones. So that work should become a rest and a pleasure, we introduced forced labor. So that not one drop of blood be shed anymore, we killed, killed, killed.
Andrei Sinyavsky on Russian Propaganda. I see all the stooges on this page.
“Are you deaf and blind?”
No, I just tend to ignore your posts.
Then it’s you problem…
Feel free to base you opinion on Russian TV
————————————————–
What’s wrong with the Russian TV? It does things CNN doesn’t do?
Nothing wrong…just nothing.
PS. there is English version for blind people at kremlin.ru
I assumed that everyone here knew that…
Can somebody please tell me why somebody would invent a sockpuppet that is subliterate?
Oops. I deleted it before I saw the request. Anyway, Averko averted!
Thanks! I don’t think I could have handled another barrage of emails, titled either “Quick Takes” or “Quick Tales” on a random basis.
”PS. there is English version for blind people at kremlin.ru ”
The internet in braille? And even better, propoganda in braille! The wonders of Russian ingenuity never cease to amaze!
Can somebody please tell me why somebody would invent a sockpuppet that is subliterate?
Sock Puppets got no reason
Sock Puppets got no reason
Sock Puppets got no reason
To live
They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin’ great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet
Well, I don’t want no Sock Puppets
Don’t want no Sock Puppets
Don’t want no Sock Puppets
Round here
”Thanks! I don’t think I could have handled another barrage of emails, titled either “Quick Takes” or “Quick Tales” on a random basis.”
The man is a legend, and his fantastic contribution to flamewars at this blog should be properly acknowledged.
I think its time for Mike’s rehabilitation at this blog!
In Kolchak’s defense, I don’t think he’s a sock puppet. Not yet at least. If he is, he’s not one from the usual sources judging from his IP address and server origin. I think he just has really whack takes. Which of course isn’t to out of the ordinary for this forum nor in relation to Russia.
One day I think I’ll use his calling me Putin and Medvedev’s bitch in an author’s description.
As for Averko. He’s left the building I think for good. But clearly his legend lives on . . .
Mike if you are reading. Many of us think your views are, well, plain wrong and you are strange if not simply crazy, but we still love you!
”As for Averko. He’s left the building I think for good. But clearly his legend lives on . . .
Mike if you are reading. Many of us think your views are, well, plain wrong and you are strange if not simply crazy, but we still love you!”
In fairness he was great fun and stuck to his guns, even if he was totally wrong. I’ve been to his Lying About Russia page a few times – must have look over there actually- and he still seems to be holding court and writing articles, so, credit to him, he’s still plugging away. I feel quite bad sometimes – I think I overdid it with him. It was hard not to at times though. He’d tell you black was white if Putin said so.
Lieven’s “Lunch with Putin” deserves much thought and serious discussion.
But The Times’ lunch with Putin is more fun to read!
Vladimir Putin eats three grapes and keeps Russia’s worst-kept secret
BTW, I think it’s “Anatol” without the i…
I’d also like to see Olga Buzova, Masha Malinkovskaya and perhaps even Ksenia Sobchak contributing to this blog. I mean you’ve had Putin, Medvedev, Julius Caesar etc here already Sean and surely at this stage you and your blog have reached Afisha levels of coolness? When are we going to see you holding court in Osen or Zima niteclub? I got stopped going into Kitaiski Lyochik one night, apparently for being intoxicated, and could do with getting ‘cred by association’ from you!
”When asked about the health of Kim Jong Il, Mr Putin affected a look of surprise and answered in a deadpan voice: “He is in a mausoleum.” ”
Thats pure class in fairness. Russians are brilliant at this type of humour, it has be said.
BTW, I don’t get off on being the spelling police. I can’t spell at all. I once wrote what is to this day perhaps the most brilliant thesis ever written about Fellini, and managed to spell his name wrong throughout the entire paper. It was traumatic…
Lieven:
da da da…
Perhaps instead of beating the dead horse of “Which is preferable? Authoritarianism or Anarchy?” (which is a bit of a false dichotomy to begin with) we should instead be debating the merits of pragmatism v. ideology.
“I’d also like to see Olga Buzova, Masha Malinkovskaya and perhaps even Ksenia Sobchak contributing to this blog.”
How you could possibly overlook Anna Semenovich from Blestyashie shocks me.
As to the article and the behavior of certain medias, it seems most reasonable that in times of fear, uncertainty, war, recovery from disaster, that it is easier to corral the people towards a nationalist, common human empathy. Fairly universal me thinks.
When it comes to war in particular, most people come ‘on side’, even if it is only to show solidarity for those being sent abroad to die on your behalf. The media helps amplify this mood and also feeds off it. After all, the media is a business and it is certainly in their interest to profit from adversity. $$$ talks and it really doesn’t matter if it is BS or not.
“In fairness he was great fun and stuck to his guns, even if he was totally wrong.”
I know some of you (especially Ger and Chris) had a great time making fun of poor Averko. On the other hand, I never saw any any merit to his stubbornly sticking to a point while being totally wrong. Such blind stubbornness is a good indicator of things such as small-mindedness, insecurity, false pride and rigid dogmatism. I wanted to say that despite being in his forties he had the emotional maturity of a teenager, but that would be totally unfair to most teenagers. His prose, though, was indeed superb. It was a joy to read, even when I totally disagree with him. To the envy of Chris Doss, he was a true wordsmith.
BTW, Australia has decided to nix a $800m agreement to sell uranium to Russia because it “fears” over “intended use”. LOL!:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7622346.stm
Are these the same people who are part of the Nuclear Suppliers Pact who gave India a waver recently on its supposedly civilian nuclear deal with the US? It is curious also that the new mandarin speaking PM of Australia is also announced the upping defense spending (already running quite high for the last few years).
That should be Nuclear Suppliers Group…
Aleks wwrote:
“When it comes to war in particular, most people come ‘on side’, even if it is only to show solidarity for those being sent abroad to die on your behalf. The media helps amplify this mood and also feeds off it. After all, the media is a business and it is certainly in their interest to profit from adversity. $$$ talks and it really doesn’t matter if it is BS or not.”
Yes, I agree. In my mind it does not excuse it, but, regrettably, money is ultimately what drives things. Even looking beyond the news media, in the publishing world most of the stuff that sells well is junk.
I should add that it takes a brave person to say ‘no, stop, this is wrong’ when the soldiers are being sent abroad. Is it not logical that this would be less possible for a journalist working for a large media corporation than one working for a smaller newspaper or even freelance? The higher up the pecking order, the less likely it will happen.
I much prefer John Stewart and his Daily Show, and he’s a comedian!
The risk of being labelled a traitor/commie/whatever however slight might lead to self-censorship in such scenarios. We often read that the Russian media practices self-censorship, yet dismiss out of hand the possibility that it is practiced by the other side or that it is ‘insignificant’.
I feel the reality is somewhere in between.
Control of the russian media may seem crude by our standards (and it certainly is), but it is clear that the free media, or those groups that stand behind it are far more sophisticated in its operation. After all, there is a whole business of media management and a culture of spin evident all around us.
What is that all for if not only to influence/change certain views on certain issues?
You can’t escape it. Even in the EU, there is a big fight about whether lobbyists should be registered for the sake of transparency. US side, McCain (the politician, not the french fry) and Obama have spoken of this.
I’d also like to see Olga Buzova, Masha Malinkovskaya and perhaps even Ksenia Sobchak contributing to this blog. I mean you’ve had Putin, Medvedev, Julius Caesar etc here already Sean and surely at this stage you and your blog have reached Afisha levels of coolness? When are we going to see you holding court in Osen or Zima niteclub? I got stopped going into Kitaiski Lyochik one night, apparently for being intoxicated, and could do with getting ‘cred by association’ from you!
———————————————–
In addition, this blog may benefit from a few posts from Vladimir Zhirinovsky. He is the guy able to shake up things a little (however, it’s NEVER, EVER goes beyond just talking, – that’s why every man in charge in Russia, including myself and Vladimir, like him).
“(which is a bit of a false dichotomy to begin with) we should instead be debating the merits of pragmatism v. ideology.”
I think this kind of debate isn’t really very fruitful, since the answer is going to depend on whether you accept the ideology or not. It’s like debating the merits of Christianity.
“To the envy of Chris Doss, he was a true wordsmith.”
In truth, my jealousy of Averko’s linguistic virtuosity has kept me up many a night.
It is true that Averko never spelled “Anatol” as “Anatoli,” however.
I, too, love Mike Averko. He is a true Russian patriot.
”How you could possibly overlook Anna Semenovich from Blestyashie shocks me.”
Aleks, what can I possibly say in defence of my own glaring incompetence in this matter? All I can say is apologies, and hope that the provision of the photograph contained in the link below goes some way toward reparation of my omission of a woman who is indeed a stupendously hot babe.
Can you just imagine being that bra?
http://celebslam.celebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/anna-semenovich-midnight-ta.jpg
”Such blind stubbornness is a good indicator of things such as small-mindedness, insecurity, false pride and rigid dogmatism.”
Kolya, you just described me there as well
! I know we shouldnt have been at him, but when he started fiting shit at us, it was really funny sometimes. ‘Buttmunch’, ‘Buttwipe’,'dumbass’ – such a funny, angry New Yorker he was! Still I wouldnt wish bad on him and hope he does well.
http://images.google.com/images?q=%22Anna+Semenovich%22&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
A veritable bounty of Anna Semenovich pics. No wonder Russians think Kournikova is a mutt, with women like this walking around Moscow
It’s not that great, really. I have no opposable thumbs or, indeed, limbs of any kind. I also completely lack any sensory apparatus or nervous system. Even if I did, I possess no reproductive system, sexual instincts, or even gender. Thus, even if I were aware of being pressed to Semenovich’s bosom, I would not care.
I bet Putin wouldn’t say that Western media was “given an order” if they all came out to support his case. Or is he a pragmatist and would be happy with 50% support? Or 25% support would be good enough? How much support exactly does Putin want to withdraw his charges of “orders”? As a trained spook he wouldn’t tell.
It isn’t like Russia didn’t get any support at all. The fact that Georgians shelled Tskhinvali was repeated from day 1. And as the time was passing more and more media sources started presenting the more realistic picture of what really happened. But the first impression was that after sudden quick fighting Georgia was overrun by Russian troops, so everybody concentrated on that.
I think the Western media automatically takes the side of the weakest party in any conflict until more information becomes available. This may not be accurate but still preferable to the reverse take, because it would be basically wrong to see the press cheering at the spectacle of a big state pummeling a little state. So if Russians are serious about building a strong state they have to accept the mistrust and scrutiny that all the strong states automatically receive.
Putin was getting away with a lot of bad things. For example, everyone heard about Abu Ghraib but how many heard about Chernokozovo, which was much worse?
What, Putin & Medvedev make themselves available to the press for the first time after more than a month after the Georgian conflict and they immediately start bitching how their case wasn’t fairly presented in the media? What, they answered questions for few hours at a stretch? Well, how about briefing the press on the day-to-day basis as the POTUS does? How about facing the room full of journalists trying to misrepresent your every word, every day? Do they do that in Kremlin? Where is Russian Helen Thomas, for instance?
“I think the Western media automatically takes the side of the weakest party in any conflict until more information becomes available.”
Titter.
1. Not one ideology. All ideologies.
2. I embrace ideologies, some considered rather extreme, but have seen how things fall apart when actual solutions to problems are taken off the table when they don’t fall in line with the “official” ideology. I don’t hear anyone in America talking about this. I know there are many things wrong with Russia and many things right with the US, but it’s significant that that Russia has witnessed a general improvement under a regime that either avoids debates about ideology or uses ideology as needed, while the US has witnessed a general decline under a strongly ideological regime. Correlation does not nec. equal causation, but I’d like to see more analysis in this direction. Meaning, more discussion about what works, versus, what’s “right.”
3. Christianity is a religion, and religions are not accountable entities which are required to produce tangible results. Governments have actual duties. You can debate the details, but the vast majority of people would agree that the performance of a government is reflected in the welfare of its citizens. So questioning the efficacy of ideology as an overriding principle of government seems a worthwhile endeavor. OTOH, I’d not waste one second debating the merits of Christianity.
Irishman,
I know how I want to die.
Anna Semenovich’s bra,
I am truely blessed, you have spoken!
I would personally vote for you at any upcoming awards on material engineering.
Well, the “Western media” is not homogenous, but the mainstream English-speaking media appeared to do precisely the opposite of what you are asserting when the US & its coalition of the willing invaded Iraq. Unless you think the US was the weaker party in that conflict….
“I think the Western media automatically takes the side of the weakest party in any conflict until more information becomes available.”
Titter.
————————————
Anna Semenovich’s bra is very smart
http://images.google.com/images?q=%22Anna+Semenovich%22&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
A veritable bounty of Anna Semenovich pics. No wonder Russians think Kournikova is a mutt, with women like this walking around Moscow
————————————————
Irishman,
I concur – she looks beautiful, however I’ve two words for you: “Photoshop” and “Silicon”
Sorry, man. Enjoy the photos.
“You can debate the details, but the vast majority of people would agree that the performance of a government is reflected in the welfare of its citizens. So questioning the efficacy of ideology as an overriding principle of government seems a worthwhile endeavor.”
But what “welfare” consists of is ideologically determined. Physical well-being? Access to choices? Participation in government? Care of the soul so as to ensure ascension into heaven? All of these (perceived) goods can conflict, and which one if any takes precedence is dependent upon ideology (a term I am taking as more-or-less synonymous with “worldview.”)
Irishman,
Look here:
http://thepresidentofrussia.blogspot.com/2008/09/beautiful-russian-woman-of-day_18.html
This woman is real: neither silicon no Photoshop has tarnished her image.
To Anna’s Bra:
Please tell Candide how much support Putin needs.
Thank you for the kind words Aleks. I have thought about going back to school and finishing my PhD in astrophysics, but obligations have kept me tied up, so to speak.
“Several U.S experts who were invited” refused to attend for fear of losing their jobs or that their respective candidates might not be elected? No wonder we’re in the terrible mess, we’re in. Fear to even be seen with the other side. Talk about narrow, provincial tunnel vision!
I can’t believe you expect me to engage in an argument based on the assertion that people dying of starvation is as subjective as people having their soul saved. Last time I checked, death was a scientifically verifiable phenomenon.
It’s not my intention to debate philosophy. Exactly the opposite. I’d like to know what makes governments work and fail when they explicitly do so by actual quantifiable data.
”To Anna’s Bra:
Please tell Candide how much support Putin needs.”
I dunno know about Putin but Anna definitely needs plenty of support, God Bless Her!
”Anna Semenovich’s bra,
I am truely blessed, you have spoken!
I would personally vote for you at any upcoming awards on material engineering.”
Aleks you deserve credit for this too man. It was my dreadful error of leaving her, which you corrected. She is special, by any standards.
”Irishman,
I concur – she looks beautiful, however I’ve two words for you: “Photoshop” and “Silicon”
Sorry, man. Enjoy the photos.”
President Medvedev, I think you’ll have to agree its hard to blame me. She’s a stunner. Am going to look at your Russian woman of the Day pic now.
A veritable bounty of Anna Semenovich pics. No wonder Russians think Kournikova is a mutt, with women like this walking around Moscow
Actually, she isn’t really my type and not one of the stereotypical sort of women I might think of when I think of Russian women.
In other words, big boobs don’t do it for me and most attractive Russian women that I have met are more of the tall, slender, with long legs variety (which is more my taste anyway).
”Actually, she isn’t really my type and not one of the stereotypical sort of women I might think of when I think of Russian women.”
Cop yourself on Shedd. She’s a cracker. Look at her face. The boobs and butt are a distraction but her face is astoundingly good looking.
As Jesus Himself said ”There’s no pleasing some people”
President Medvedev, I think you’ll have to agree its hard to blame me. She’s a stunner. Am going to look at your Russian woman of the Day pic now.
————————————————
Irishman,
I had no intention to blame you, Anna is a stunning woman. She even once said: “My breasts are a national treasure!” I also admit I used to be one of her many admirers. However, at some point I saw a photo taken by a paparazzi where Anna is leaving a clinic, looking very “ordinary” AND, she was holding some X-Ray photographs in her hands … Under magnification it was clear … silicon.
President Medvedev,
your blog I have to concur does indeed contain a variety of beauties in the Russain Beauty of The Day section, most particularily the lady named Golkova, on september 17th. Whilst I would still be one to favour the beauty of Anna Semenovich, I will be a daily visitor to your blog fortwith. Nice motorbike too
Irishman,
Thank you for your kind words and useful comments. I also like Julia Gukova the most (so far). Of course, the women in my gallery cannot compete with Anna Semenovich – Anna is a celebrity and as such enjoys the best web design
. I like finding gems in every day type of women.
”I had no intention to blame you, Anna is a stunning woman. She even once said: “My breasts are a national treasure!” I also admit I used to be one of her many admirers. However, at some point I saw a photo taken by a paparazzi where Anna is leaving a clinic, looking very “ordinary” AND, she was holding some X-Ray photographs in her hands … Under magnification it was clear … silicon.”
In fairness President Medvedev, if you woke up in the morning and she was alongside you in the bed, would really be that concerned with silicone?
“I can’t believe you expect me to engage in an argument based on the assertion that people dying of starvation is as subjective as people having their soul saved.”
There are governments and many people in the world — including a lot in the United States — who act on the belief that the saving of souls is more important than keeping people from dying of starvation.
My point is that what a person defines as good depends on his/her ideology.
I know you don’t want to discus philosophy, but this is essentially a philosophical question.
”Thank you for your kind words and useful comments. I also like Julia Gukova the most (so far)”
Ne za schto, President:-). Actually Golkova is probably the equal of Semenovich – Golkova isnt a common type of beauty anywhere. She’s seriously good looking – the eyes, wow!
I kind of think that if I were a woman, I would consider being as well-endowed as Semonvich to be a curse, not a blessing.
”I kind of think that if I were a woman, I would consider being as well-endowed as Semonvich to be a curse, not a blessing.”
Certainly her spine is likely to be under a bit of pressure. Then again, her bank balance most certainly is likely to be in very good order, thus compensating her somewhat.
Why do nations succeed or fail is a philosophical question? I’m not sure that is true, actually. In fact, one of my complaints is that is how people want to treat it. The USSR failed because of Communism. The USA came to prominence because of Democracy. It’s a simplistic and frankly irresponsible approach. Real people make verifiable decisions based on a set of criteria before them and these decisions have measurable impacts on society such as the strength of the economy, which can be measured by employment, GDP, etc., standards of living, which can be measured by lifespan, access to basic services, literacy rate, etc, and freedoms, which can be measured by incarceration rates, access to juried trials, restrictions on movement, etc.
I think the idea that all of these are only subjective goods is a strawman. I don’t see anyone claiming Zimbabwe a thriving nation or Canada a failed state.
I think there is a fundamental cultural misunderstanding about the silicon in AM’s boobs. If she was from the West, I could understand as silicon implants over there are of the ‘dumb’ variety. But no, she is from the East and thus nothing is what it seems.
Therefore, I am please to confirm the rumors that the silicon in AM’s boobs are in fact advanced super computers based on the Russian Elbrus-3M microprocessor (http://www.eetimes.eu/eastern_europe/208802295) that in fact make her the world’s first realbionic woman.
I have no idea what purpose they serve, and I a unable to confirm that Putin had a a direct hand in personally designing and testing them (as she is not a former gymnast) but there is strong evidence to support this.
I found something I saw on TV last night quite ironic: the authoritarian capitalists (China, Russia, the Middle East) might have to bail out the liberal capitalists (the US and Europe). And people say that authoritarian capitalism is doomed to failure. Maybe it’s time to rethink that.
Judging from the commentary in today’s Financial Times, the free market mandarins are suddenly turning to the state for regulation. Alan Greenspan, that kooky Ayn Rand cultist that he is, is now being called a sinner. You know some sort of shift going on when the sacred suddenly becomes the profane.
FFTEC,
I heard Dolly ‘Jolene’ Parton faced this particular problems and had to have reductive surgery. I wonder what they do with the left over bits…
Yeah, Sean, it’s ironic that when a small business fails (Mom & Pop corner store, a family farm, a small manufacturer) many hard-core capitalist say, “well, too bad, but such things happen in a free market” and become indignant when there is any talk about somehow helping the small fry. But there is such a thing as being too big to fail. Then, somehow, many of these capitalists who frowned upon government interference clamor for government help.
”I have no idea what purpose they serve, and I a unable to confirm that Putin had a a direct hand in personally designing and testing them (as she is not a former gymnast) but there is strong evidence to support this.”
Priceless Aleks
Then, somehow, many of these capitalists who frowned upon government interference clamor for government help.
I happen to think that times like these are moments when the concrete bursts through ideology. For example, what many free marketeers would normally call “welfare” and “socialism” is now deemed as “necessity”. Call it the base’s revenge on the superstructure.
I think this is a time when Zizek would make one of his “Hegelian points” where a thing suddenly manifests as its opposite.
What will really be interesting to watch over the next few years is whether AIG will actually pay back that $85 billion with 12% interest. Somehow I doubt it.
Cop yourself on Shedd. She’s a cracker. Look at her face. The boobs and butt are a distraction but her face is astoundingly good looking.
Don’t lie – you didn’t form your opinion on her beauty by looking at her face.
As to her face, I’ve seen more attractive. She has a forehead bigger than Christina Ricci’s.
“Well, the “Western media” is not homogenous, but the mainstream English-speaking media appeared to do precisely the opposite of what you are asserting when the US & its coalition of the willing invaded Iraq. Unless you think the US was the weaker party in that conflict….”
I disagree. The English-speaking media was very sceptical while outside the US the reaction was openly negative. Every set-back was amplified and all the successes were disregarded. Abu Ghraib drowned everything else for months. Still wasn’t enough, so there were outright fabrications. For example, there was a widely distributed photo of the US soldier pointing a gun at cowering Iraqi civilians and shouting at them menacingly. That was complete photoshop. On whose “orders” that was done?
The same applies to every conflict we been through lately. When Hizbollah was firing rockets at Israel and Israel retaliated, we’ve seen photoshop pics of Beirut fires that never happened but very little about real destruction of Israeli villages. On whose “orders” that was done?
Putin is a pathetic whiner. How would he like to stand in front of hostile press corps and answer questions like, “Mr. PM, why do you like killing Georgian babies so much?” everyday? He was given a small portion of the treatment that Bush, Blair and Olmert received on a regular basis and it took him more than a month to summon enough courage to face the press in a specially arranged meeting.
And don’t even get me started about those Western press types that forever accuse their leaders about lack of freedoms and then go and eat s++t out of Putin’s hand…
“Why do nations succeed or fail is a philosophical question? I’m not sure that is true, actually. In fact, one of my complaints is that is how people want to treat it. The USSR failed because of Communism. The USA came to prominence because of Democracy. It’s a simplistic and frankly irresponsible approach.”
I completely agree with you. (Actually I think the US; rise to prominence is largely a function of geography, climate, and relative cultural homogeneity.) My only quibble is that what constitutes “success” is ideologically determined. (If by “successful” is just a synonym for “lasting a long time,” then the most successful civilization in history was Pharaonic Egypt. Do you want to live in Pharaonic Egypt?) Modern secular societies of the type “we” usually hold up as the norm would have been considered dystopian in the Middle Ages and actually still are by a lot of the world’s population.
I think a better issue is ideology vs. reality, which is kind of implicit in the ideology vs. pragmatism distinction and in the word “ideology” itself (the word comes from “idea,” not “ideals”). To preempt the obvious objection, I am aware that no pragmatism exists without an ideology of some sort, but I think by ideology here we really mean something like a grand narrative scheme to which it is believed the world should conform, and should be made to conform to if it doesn’t. Ideology usually fails spectacularly when it hits reality — although it tends to survive its failures.
True Russian or true patriot, Zhirik?
Son of the lawyer!
““Mr. PM, why do you like killing Georgian babies so much?”
Bush and Blair have had to answer such questions on a daily basis? I must have missed this.
(PS Poemless, you can witness the clash of ideology and reality, and the former’s imperviousness to the latter, in Candide’s case here every day.
)
I will never forgive you for breaking with Anpilov, Zyuganov you bastard.
LOL. I was just about to post the same sentiment, something about not letting reality get in the way of his beliefs…
BTW, I think I made my definition of success pretty clear.
”I had no intention to blame you, Anna is a stunning woman. She even once said: “My breasts are a national treasure!” I also admit I used to be one of her many admirers. However, at some point I saw a photo taken by a paparazzi where Anna is leaving a clinic, looking very “ordinary” AND, she was holding some X-Ray photographs in her hands … Under magnification it was clear … silicon.”
In fairness President Medvedev, if you woke up in the morning and she was alongside you in the bed, would really be that concerned with silicone?
———————————————
Irishman,
That’s a very tricky question – given my position and all. I’ll check with Vladimir Vladimirovich (Putin) before answering that one.
”Thank you for your kind words and useful comments. I also like Julia Gukova the most (so far)”
Ne za schto, President:-). Actually Golkova is probably the equal of Semenovich – Golkova isnt a common type of beauty anywhere. She’s seriously good looking – the eyes, wow!
————————————————
Agree again, the eyes of Golkova = the breasts of Semenovich. Amazing! Go Russia, go!
Then, somehow, many of these capitalists who frowned upon government interference clamor for government help.
I happen to think that times like these are moments when the concrete bursts through ideology. For example, what many free marketeers would normally call “welfare” and “socialism” is now deemed as “necessity”. Call it the base’s revenge on the superstructure.
I think this is a time when Zizek would make one of his “Hegelian points” where a thing suddenly manifests as its opposite.
What will really be interesting to watch over the next few years is whether AIG will actually pay back that $85 billion with 12% interest. Somehow I doubt it.
———————————————–
Agree, it’s safe to assume that the $85 billion will be “restructured”.
OK
Brezhnev – Gorbachev – Yeltsin – Putin.
Should I provide details?
”Don’t lie – you didn’t form your opinion on her beauty by looking at her face.
As to her face, I’ve seen more attractive. She has a forehead bigger than Christina Ricci’s.”
Wally I’ve never been persuaded by boobs – I prefer a good arse, a rare enough thing in Ireland – and by any standards Anna is fantastic looking, boobs or no boobs. Of course there are better looking babes than her – ‘no matter how good you are, there’s always someone better’ – but if you could name a few Russian names there, that you consider tastier than Anna, I’ll give it my full attention and respect. I daresay if Anna gave you a whack on the arse and told you get out of the bed and make her a cup of tea, you’d be in the kitchen before she’d finished the scentence.
”That’s a very tricky question – given my position and all. I’ll check with Vladimir Vladimirovich (Putin) before answering that one.”
A girl I worked with for years in Limerick, very good looking herself, thinks both Putin and Medvedev (yourself of course) are fine looking lads. Her cateracts operation is being arranged, needless to say
”Agree again, the eyes of Golkova = the breasts of Semenovich. Amazing! Go Russia, go!”
Yeah, she’s special President. Russia has a huge advantage over most countries in this area. We have women here who can match them, but they are few and far between and proportional to population Russia has a massively higher babe factor than Ireland or I’d say most western countries. I’ve read before though that Venezuela beats everyone hands down though. Russian figures – as Wally mentioned – are unbeatable though.
Kolya,
I’m starting to see an subliminal theme in your post:
“Yeah, Sean, it’s ironic that when a small business fails (Mom & Pop corner store, a family farm, a small manufacturer) many hard-core capitalist say, “well, too bad, but such things happen in a free market” and become indignant when there is any talk about somehow helping the small fry. But there is such a thing as being too big to fail. Then, somehow, many of these capitalists who frowned upon government interference clamor for government help.
A new use for viagra? Or is the Fed now expected to play the role of the little blue pill, every whatnot company that has over-exposed itself (!!) begging for some Fed luv on absolutely no conditions at all?
It is deeply depressing that the state has to bail out rich greedy/ignorant/whatever b*stards with our money because by them going down (!!), we all go down (!) too.
I’m starting to see the mass mowing down of capitalist pigs with machine guns as reasonable now.
Is anyone actually responsible? Anyone put up their hand and say, “Sorry, my fault, here’s billions I’ve made over the last couple of decades back and now I will retire to a prison settlement on an island somewhere in the arctic to live out my days doing hard labour”?
***
I apologize for the above rant. Have been listening to the BBC all day on the financial crisis. Our eastern friends hopefully won’t make the same mistake and I’m sure that the Chinese in particular are paying very close attention (and won’t go for total deregulation in future) and are probably quite impressed with how the western financial system is intent on committing hari-kiri on itself. Duh!
I think you’re on to something Aleks. I think the viagra metaphor is quite apt. It can’t be a coincidence erectile dysfunction ads proliferate on American television. Surely there is a cultural antecedent to this market slump. As McCain’s former economic advisor Phil Gramm said, “‘We have sort of become a nation of whiners. You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline‘”
Sean, add that to the profligate ads for medicaments to combat wind and baldness and we almost have all the ingredients for a conspiracy!
Still, this is massive history in the making. Real rock and roll since 1989. It is a privilege not to be dead whilst all this is going on!
“BTW, I think I made my definition of success pretty clear.”
I don’t want to sound like some annoying Phil 101 teacher, but your definition of success is just your definition, unless you can establish it as universally binding. By success defined as establishing a communist paradise, the USSR was a miserable failure. By success defined as industrializing a country, the USSR was brilliant.
“I prefer a good arse, a rare enough thing in Ireland”
Does Sinead O’Conner have a nice ass?
Does Bono?
I rest my case. Ger speaks truth.
Goddamn computer recording my sockpuppets!!!!
“A girl I worked with for years in Limerick, very good looking herself, thinks both Putin and Medvedev (yourself of course) are fine looking lads.”
My mom thinks Putin is the sexiest man alive.
A girl I worked with for years in Limerick, very good looking herself, thinks both Putin and Medvedev are fine looking lads.
She would … until she had to bend over to look them in the eye.
probably quite impressed with how the western financial system is intent on committing hari-kiri on itself.
Probably shouldn’t count the Western financial system as close to dead. We’ve endured similar problems in the past, most recently the S&L crisis that Reaganomics made in the late 80s.
constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline.
It comes from an America that believes in our own myths and then waking up in adulthood and realizing life isn’t what we imagined.
Despite that, it is claimed that Americans imagine that we have less free time and more stress than our ancestors. People who study such things say, in fact, it is the contrary … we have much more leisure time and make more money than in the past. There are other similar trends where our perceptions of risk don’t match up with reality (crime rates, child abductions, environmental contaminants, etc.)
So, when your perception of how your pecker should work doesn’t match up with the reality – Americans turn to a little blue pill.
Soon we’ll all just willingly plug into the Matrix.
It’s easy to “fix”… you know
And there are times when those alive wish to be long dead.
“BTW, I think I made my definition of success pretty clear.”
I don’t want to sound like some annoying Phil 101 teacher, but your definition of success is just your definition, unless you can establish it as universally binding. By success defined as establishing a communist paradise, the USSR was a miserable failure. By success defined as industrializing a country, the USSR was brilliant.
————————————————
Zhirinovskij,
Don’t forget to remind that the USSR had an industry producing everything, unlike the industry of the current USA. Speaking of the latter, it seems that the economy based on trading “air” on financial markets is coming to an end.
”That’s a very tricky question – given my position and all. I’ll check with Vladimir Vladimirovich (Putin) before answering that one.”
A girl I worked with for years in Limerick, very good looking herself, thinks both Putin and Medvedev (yourself of course) are fine looking lads. Her cateracts operation is being arranged, needless to say
================================================
Well, Russia produces beautiful women and not-so attractive men, for some reasons. By the Russian standards, both Vladimir and I are somewhere in between Antonio Banderas and Mel Gibson.
”Agree again, the eyes of Golkova = the breasts of Semenovich. Amazing! Go Russia, go!”
Yeah, she’s special President. Russia has a huge advantage over most countries in this area. We have women here who can match them, but they are few and far between and proportional to population Russia has a massively higher babe factor than Ireland or I’d say most western countries. I’ve read before though that Venezuela beats everyone hands down though. Russian figures – as Wally mentioned – are unbeatable though.
———————————————-
Russia has attractive women. However, we (the Russian men) secretly think that Ukrainian and Polish women are even more beautiful (don’t tell anyone): “the grass is greener on the other side” indeed.
I was told that Brazilian women are very hot, however never tasted that theory myself (Vladimir Putin and my wife control me pretty good).
If you wish to continue with the subject, please feel free to drop a line or two on my blog. This subject seems to be out of tune with the New Cold War and the angry speeches
of Mz. Condolezza (she really should go out more often).
Speaking of the latter, it seems that the economy based on trading “air” on financial markets is coming to an end.
Sure, just like it’s come to an end every 20 years or so since 1819.
This latest real estate driven market crash is small compared to historical market crashes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_market_crashes
Speaking of the latter, it seems that the economy based on trading “air” on financial markets is coming to an end.
Sure, just like it’s come to an end every 20 years or so since 1819.
This latest real estate driven market crash is small compared to historical market crashes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_market_crashes
==============================================
W. Shedd,
I hope you are right, however I’ve bad feelings about all this. The backbone of a real economy is always manufacturing. I don’t see any in the US. “Economy” is your lawyer, financial advisor, mortgage broker, real estate agent, and other “important” services. Sorry I don’t buy it. In Russia we at least have oil and gas behind that paper traded daily on the stock exchange. It feels that there’s nothing (almost) behind all those transactions on NY stock exchange.
Just an opinion of a democratically elected President.
The backbone of a real economy is always manufacturing.
No.
I don’t see any in the US.
30% of the US economy is manufacturing, and much of it is high technology based that is barely able to be duplicated anywhere else in the world.
“The United States has the single largest value-added world share (35% in 2005) of any country in high-technology manufacturing industries. It is ranked first in three of the five high-technology industries (scientific instruments, aerospace, and pharmaceuticals) and is ranked second in the other two (communications equipment and office machinery and computers).”
In other words, it is THE dominant high-technology manufacturing country in the world, ranked first or second in every industry category.
Further, a large portion of the US-economy is information based. To wit:
“The United States is the leading provider of market-oriented knowledge-intensive services, responsible for about 40% of world revenues on a value-added basis (gross revenue sales minus the purchase of domestic and imported supplies and inputs from other industries) over the past decade. The U.S. world share of value added exceeds world share of both the EU and Asia in all three industries.”
Collapse of real estate markets and subsequent credit and stock markets has happened before in the US, as recently as the late 80’s when 747 savings and loan associations collapsed, for a total estimated loss of approximately $160 billion.
If you want to talk about stock market crisis, go right ahead. The US Dow Jones Industrial Average is down about 20% from its high in the past year (roughly 14,000+ to 11,000).
In Russia, the RBC Composite Index is down 58% from its high in the past year (209.6 to 86.9).
W. Shedd,
With all due respect, but you sound like the Soviet propaganda right before the USSR collapsed.
In Russia we at least have oil and gas behind that paper traded daily on the stock exchange.
The US is the world’s 3rd largest producer of oil, ranked just behind Russia.
The US is the world’s 2nd largest producer of natural gas, again ranked just behind Russia.
With all due respect, but you sound like the Soviet propaganda right before the USSR collapsed.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Calling you a half-wit would be an insult to half-wits everywhere.
I’m just citing data that you apparently do not know, or do not care to know. You imagine that loans on real estate might somehow collapse the US economy, when such real estate collapses have happened throughout American history.
Drop the “all due respect” and “I hope you are right” crap. You obviously disagree, but you have no information to support your point of view other than wishful thinking.
You obviously are too young to remember the S&L crisis of the late 80s.
30% of the US economy is manufacturing, and much of it is high technology based that is barely able to be duplicated anywhere else in the world.
It is really funny to deal with dinosaurs that think manufacturing means steel mills and assembly lines. You hear them on the fringe right/left here all the time: “Good manufacturing jobs are all moving to China”. I guess invanos and medvedevs get their info from these sources as well.
Recently I looked up what chemical industry based construction materials are being sold in Russia – vinyl sidings, roofing tiles, railings, etc. Except for a couple European producers, most of it comes from the US and Canada.
With all due respect, but you sound like the Soviet propaganda right before the USSR collapsed.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Calling you a half-wit would be an insult to half-wits everywhere.
I’m just citing data that you apparently do not know, or do not care to know. You imagine that loans on real estate might somehow collapse the US economy, when such real estate collapses have happened throughout American history.
Drop the “all due respect” and “I hope you are right” crap. You obviously disagree, but you have no information to support your point of view other than wishful thinking.
You obviously are too young to remember the S&L crisis of the late 80s.
———————————————-
“Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause” Victor Hugo
Can you just imagine being that bra?
There is no way those are real.
I found something I saw on TV last night quite ironic: the authoritarian capitalists (China, Russia, the Middle East) might have to bail out the liberal capitalists (the US and Europe).
I bet the person saying this was not an economist.
And people say that authoritarian capitalism is doomed to failure. Maybe it’s time to rethink that.
Given you take particular pleasure in exposing nonsense written about Russia, you seem awfully keen to cling to the most spurious pieces of economic commentary.
That’s right.
But watch this:
Russia 8,420,000 – 2,310,000 = + 6,110,000 bbl/day
United States 7,800,000 – 19,650,000 = – 11,850,000 bbl/day
First number shows production, second – consumption, third – debit/credit.
So I would vote Palin and start drilling
Putin is a pathetic whiner. How would he like to stand in front of hostile press corps and answer questions like, “Mr. PM, why do you like killing Georgian babies so much?” everyday? He was given a small portion of the treatment that Bush, Blair and Olmert received on a regular basis and it took him more than a month to summon enough courage to face the press in a specially arranged meeting.
And don’t even get me started about those Western press types that forever accuse their leaders about lack of freedoms and then go and eat s++t out of Putin’s hand…
Excellent post, Candide.
In Russia we at least have oil and gas behind that paper traded daily on the stock exchange.
Unfortunately, that oil and gas is in the ground and requires western money, expertise, and equipment to get it out.
Wally,
Listening to my favorite propaganda station yesterday (the BBC), one guy who has been trading shares for the last 50 years said he hadn’t seen anything like it since the panic in 1974. He’s not the only one with that view:
http://www.citywire.co.uk/Professional/-/news/fund-news/content.aspx?ID=298966
I’m off to bury my gold in the garden now…
First number shows production, second – consumption, third – debit/credit.
So I would vote Palin and start drilling
Why? You seem to think this proves something.
“Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause” Victor Hugo
Cute. But quoting some author doesn’t make it so.
Not surprisingly, you don’t have a single point of information to refute anything that I said.
one guy who has been trading shares for the last 50 years said he hadn’t seen anything like it since the panic in 1974.
Yea, and we all remember how the United States became a 3rd rate banana republic after 1974.
Actually, as I have said three times now, this happened most recently during the S&L crisis of the late 80s, caused by the Reagan administration loosening of restrictions on S&Ls.
Certain parties here might find this interesting:
http://www.cthuugle.com/en/
In Russia we at least have oil and gas behind that paper traded daily on the stock exchange.
Unfortunately, that oil and gas is in the ground and requires western money, expertise, and equipment to get it out.
—————————————————
Tim Newman:
Somewhat cliche and naive on your part, sorry
1) “West” has no money, only a huge debt. Thus to “give us” money you need to borrow it first from us (China, or whoever has the money) and then “invest”
2) Russia is not Nigeria, we have our own aerospace industry, our version of GPS (called GLONASS), etc … we can extract the oil ourselves. Moreover, we have joint projects with Venetzuela, Kazakhstan, Algeria … – helping them to get “their” oil and gas. Moreover we had an agreement with the Iraqi government to jointly explore their oil fields, but since Iraq is occupied by the American Army, the current Iraqi government cannot honor that agreement.
So, please get rid of this cliches circa 1992 from your head.
Tim Newman,
That\’s the real state of affairs what concerns \”USA has the money\” :
http://thepresidentofrussia.blogspot.com/2008/09/i-am-fed-up-with-this-for-how-much.html
Enjoy!
Given you take particular pleasure in exposing nonsense written about Russia, you seem awfully keen to cling to the most spurious pieces of economic commentary.
Well, Tim what can I say. As you like to declare with your own particular pleasure to anyone who doesn’t share your economic vision: I’m not an economist.
Are you?
By typing his mnogo-mnogo bukov on this blog (instead of installing his superb mechanizms) Tim undermines the development of Russian oil wealth!
I think an appropriate Russian authorities will look at the matter and send him home
Unless he is good economist
“West” has no money, only a huge debt. Thus to “give us” money you need to borrow it first from us (China, or whoever has the money) and then “invest”
Yes, that’s why when Rosneft wanted a $22bn loan in 2007, it was arranged by ABN AMRO, Barclays, BNP Paribas, Calyon, Citibank, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase and Morgan Stanley.
Note that Rosneft didn’t approach the bank of Moscow.
Russia is not Nigeria, we have our own aerospace industry, our version of GPS (called GLONASS), etc … we can extract the oil ourselves.
Yes, and you did such a good job of that in the Soviet times that your best producing reservoirs are now screwed because you mis-managed the water injection.
Moreover, we have joint projects with Venetzuela, Kazakhstan, Algeria … – helping them to get “their” oil and gas.
Erm, no. You’ve made a lot of bluster and waved pieces of paper supposedly representing historical deals, but Venezuela relies on western kit installed pre-Chavez to keep his oil flowing, and last time I looked, the biggest projects in Kazakhstan were western managed with, from what I could see, almost no Russian involvement.
As you like to declare with your own particular pleasure to anyone who doesn’t share your economic vision: I’m not an economist.
Nobody is saying that you are, and whether you are an economist or not is irrelevant to my point.
My point is that you devote huge portions of your blog to addressing what you believe is inaccurate, incorrect, or downright ignorant commentary on the subject you happen to know a bit about: Russia.
Anyone with a rough understanding of economics would regard many of your comments in much the same way.
Are you?
No. But I have a rough understanding of economics, enough to know that the prospect of the Middle East or Russia bailing out the west is laughable.
I agree – it’s laughable. What is the point to bail someone out if you can can buy him cheap if you wait a little?
PS. Tim, I’m really concern about oil platforms in the Sea of Okhotsk…(pee soup joke)
“West” has no money, only a huge debt. Thus to “give us” money you need to borrow it first from us (China, or whoever has the money) and then “invest”
Western wealth far outweighs its debts. The Russian economy will need to continue to grow for many years before it will accumulate the wealth that Western nations have. Much of Russian economic growth is tied to its selling of raw commodities, which is not a good model for sustained economic growth.
In part, this is why the Russian government creates a reserve fund (they really don’t have a choice) and also why the government is trying to promote and improve its manufacturing sector, which is often outdated. As Newman points out, Russia is dependent upon the West for technology and expertise, not only in oil and gas exploration, recovery, and distribution, but for manufacturing technologies.
Your model of having to borrow to investment is profoundly silly. It does not exist as you describe it, and it only takes a moment of thought to realize why not.
Dubai ports anyone? Even in the ‘best’ of circumstances, national security trumps all, so it is not much of a brainer that even if the West was desperate for capital from abroad, it is highly unlikely they would accept it from the likes of Russia. I do not doubt the creative ability of state financiers to dream up new ways of accessing other less ‘risky’ sources of funds.
On a side note, I read recently (the MT I think) that Dima is proposing a bill to slash ‘inspections’ by 90% or so of businesses by various government department inspectors. As the article pointed out, if you don’t tackle corrupt inspectors, then the bill is more or less useless and that these people are not doing their job as is evidenced by the lack in decline of fires.
The whole point was to clean it up and thus protect future FDI. Maybe it would be better to merge and split the various agencies and run them on draconian anti-corruption lines… Dima, I’m not impressed.
enough to know that the prospect of the Middle East or Russia bailing out the west is laughable.
First, you are mistaking a statement and an expression of curiosity for an argument. I said I found it ironic, not true. Also, the person was an economist. Unfortunately. he didn’t explain what he meant by the statement. I assume, and I can only assume, he meant something about how any bailout would require the US to get loans from those regions. Don’t for get that this included China, which you conveniently excluded. I would imagine that any loans the US gets for a bailout would be a combination of all three regions, China being the principle country. But what do I know since, unlike your enlightened sense of the truth, I don’t even have a rough understanding of economics since I didn’t immediately laugh at a notion that sounded from my perspective interesting and worth contemplating.
Second, I can understand why you took my curiosity as an argument. This forum, like most on the internet, is polemical by nature because people, like yourself, engage it with an intellectual chip on your shoulder with something to prove. So instead of discussing, you argue about minutia because somehow your little virtual victories bring you some kind of self-satisfaction and comfort to your ego. This is fine. We all do it. Some just do it less vociferously than you. I think this is why, while I find you an reasonably intelligent guy, I simple choose not to engage you. It has nothing to do with your views, which you know I mostly disagree, but that I think my time would be better spent bashing my head against the wall rather than engaging in useless rhetorics which poorly disguise themselves as “truth.” It’s boring.
Perhaps this is why most people rather discuss what’s-her-name’s silicone filled bra (well, that and the fact that Ger is really, really horny).
One of the things that strikes me about the comments here, and this is not to you in particular Tim, is that the only common ground for discussion is found in some bimbo’s tits (which is not surprising since I know many of us would love to burrow ourselves in them as if they were comfortable beanbags and chat about Russia), whereas when issues are discussed, we are only really talking to ourselves. (This rant being a perfect example).
So when Cyrill asked when did this blog become so vulgar on another thread, I said to myself, if it has, that is okay with me. Not only do I not have an moral or intellectual problem with vulgarity, as far as I’m concerned this forum is for the blog’s readers, not me. I’ve also discovered that people come here not so much for my writing, but for the people who frequently comment. So the way I see it, the mode of discourse in the comments should be regulated by the participants.
My suspicion is that the problem of discussion lies somewhere in the gap between text and meaning. No matter what the text is, we always fill it with our own meaning which only spurs our own endless babble.
The internet just doesn’t facilitate listening which is why I believe it will never ever replace face to face discussion. Over the years, I’ve found that more often than not internet discussion is really just talking to oneself in the mirror. This is probably why I never thought of my blog as nothing more than a narcissistic project and shocks me that people actually read and (seem) to enjoy it.
Okay. End of rant. My apologies. I think I need so sleep. To bad I have to go to work in an hour.
Fair comment Sean, fair comment.
All this talk of boobs and me being stuck on a platform with 296 men is causing me to vent more than usual.
Apologies.
And once again, fair comment.
Even in the ‘best’ of circumstances, national security trumps all, so it is not much of a brainer that even if the West was desperate for capital from abroad, it is highly unlikely they would accept it from the likes of Russia.
While I don’t dispute that the US would take money from Russia, I do wonder about national security trumping all. If this was the case, then why does the US borrow so much money from China? I would say that capital trumps all, national security is only a factor when capital meets resistance.
Western wealth far outweighs its debts.
The only thing I would say to this Wally, is whose wealth and whose debt? Collapse in into the West I think obscures things. As we know wealth is concentrated, while debt is socialized. At least that is what the National Debt clock in NY says to me.
Wally, like you, I know the US is much more resilient than many people think.
Back in 2001 we were living in the DC area. During 9/11 a Russian relative had to unexpectedly (because of flight cancellations) stay with us for several days. During our conversations I realized that he took it for granted that the US will unravel from the 9/11 blow–sort of like the CCCP unraveled not long before. He was surprised that I strongly disagreed with him. I stressed the resiliency of the American system. Despite its many imperfections, I kept on telling him, the US was not going to unravel like the Soviet Union. I also remember how after 1987’s Black Monday (when the stock market lost over 22 percent in one day) people in other countries were self-assuredly talking about a coming great depression in the US which will result in America’s inevitable loss of world status and power. Only two examples among many. This is not to say that the US will be a great power forever–of course it will not.
Having said all that, although I don’t know much about it, I cannot dismiss the worries and concerns of so many prominent businessmen, financiers and economists. Many of them state that this is the worst financial crisis since 1929. This does mean that another great depression will necessarily follow. But it is a possibility. Most of these experts assume that now there are better tools to deal with such a situation. And in any event, let’s remember that the US survived the Great Depression to become even more prosperous than before. This is only to provide some perspective–not that I expect an exact repeat.
only common ground for discussion is found in some bimbo’s tits
Actually not true, I’m not interested in Semenovich’s tits. My wife told me so.
Am I the only one who finds her surname comedic? It’s like something out of a James Bond movie.
“If this was the case, then why does the US borrow so much money from China?”
Father Ted to the rescue here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98hO97ky-sA
I think I might have confused myself.
China is the biggie, softie panda that always errs on the side of caution – ping-pong diplomacy and all that. They are not famous for throwing their toys out of the window, where as the Russkis really do like a tantrum or a shoe banging.
Also the economics and the much stronger symbiotic relationship – as I posted somewhere earlier, there was the explanation (by some ‘expert’ or other that AIG was bailed out because it is the largest (and longest serving) insurer in China and if it was allowed to go belly up and undermine the Chinese market, the ripples would ping back to the US. Or something like that.
Oh, I’ve just figured out the relevance the FT clip I posted had, China is the real (in this case milch) cow, Russia is the small one (i.e. appears big close up, but is in reality v. small). Sometimes I have to play catch up with myself.
Coming to think of it, China is quite a randy panda (economically speaking). I won\’t even mention how the bamboo might feel about this.
Having said all that, although I don’t know much about it, I cannot dismiss the worries and concerns of so many prominent businessmen, financiers and economists.
I agree with all your points obviously. Unfortunately, the way debate often works on this forum (and elsewhere on the internet), if you choose to engage the debate, you find yourself somewhat painted into a corner. Certainly, the current US financial and mortgage crisis is a problem and I wouldn’t say otherwise. However, it is ridiculous to start dancing on our grave.
I haven’t seen any businessmen, financiers, or economists calling this the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. In fact, I have not seen clear agreement over whether the US has entered a recession yet. The last two quarters saw economic growth and unemployment is relatively low.
I experienced the S&L financial crisis, which was much deeper than any blip that occurred after 9/11.
One quote I did find is: “America is suffering its worst housing crisis since the Great Depression, as marked by plunging home prices, spiraling foreclosure rates and heavy financial losses for builders. Construction of homes and apartments fell by 6.2 percent in August, to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 895,000 units, the lowest level in 17 years.”
However, that is very different than comparing the entire US economy to the 1929 Depression, which was profound across all sectors.
Personally, home prices have barely budged here in the northeast, and I keep hoping they will slide more than they have. While my ex-wife has a lovely 4-bedroom colonial, Katja and I continue to rent.
I know the US is much more resilient than many people think.
Of course. Anyone seriously thinking about the collapse of the US is engaging in fantasy (which I’ve been known to do) or is desiring utter catastrophe.
What interests me in all this economic quaking is the space it has opened up. People are now talking about formerly forbidden things: nationalization, regulation, etc. I think this is significant, however brief it might turn out to be. Like said, yesterday, it’s one of those moments where the concrete busts through ideology. These are rare and I think we should savor it in a perverted kind of way.
I’m beginning to believe that Depression is a thing of the past. There is just too much State to let it happen. As recent events show, the state is not shy about stepping in and propping up the market and socializing loss.
What is interesting in regard to the American election is how difficult it is for McCain to make the switch. He seems stuck in rhetoric, while the public wants to hear policy and solutions. Obama appears to at least be making steps toward the latter.
China is an interesting randy panda in all this. It’s virtual silence on many of the world’s “crises” is intriguing. I guess its to busy cashing checks to worry itself.
@Wally. Doesn’t you wife know that the best way to provoke a fetish is to deny the object that has yet to be fetishized?
Oh . . .Semen, heh, heh, heh, he said semen.
Speaking of James Bond, does anyone else think that Daniel Craig would be a perfect Putin?
“I haven’t seen any businessmen, financiers, or economists calling this the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.”
Greenspan called it the worst he’s ever seen, and he’s old enough for the depression to be the lower boundary of his life.
“Western wealth far outweighs its debts.”
————————————————-
W. Shedd. That yet another common misconception taken from the baggage of a cheap salesman.
“Wealth” is only wealth if someone wants to buy it. For example, the American people have just lost $1 trillion (and counting) in the housing bust. If the rest of the world believes that USA is bankrupt nobody would want that “wealth”. Look what happened to Russia: in 1992 nobody wanted that “wealth”, because people believed Russia was finished. Now it’s totally opposite: The real estate in Moscow is more valuable than in NYC, there are more dollar billionaires living in Moscow than in New York.
So if the US finds itself in the middle of a financial meltdown, nobody would want that “wealth” and hence its price – $0!
Personally, home prices have barely budged here in the northeast, and I keep hoping they will slide more than they have.
Which attests to the fact that at least I think, the housing crisis in the US is more regional. It’s bad here in SoCal, but this was one of the centers of overvaluation. The problem is that here in LA, a drop in housing prices and the rise mortgage failures only drives up rents.
As for my Leftist comrades who like to seriously cheer for the US/capitalism’s imminent collapse, I would say this. Your revolution will not be a socialist one. It will be a right wing religious fundamentalist bloodbath. The right/fundamentalists are really the only politically organized force in the world. This being the case, I hope and pray that the liberal capitalists get their house in order.
Even in the ‘best’ of circumstances, national security trumps all, so it is not much of a brainer that even if the West was desperate for capital from abroad, it is highly unlikely they would accept it from the likes of Russia.
While I don’t dispute that the US would take money from Russia, I do wonder about national security trumping all. If this was the case, then why does the US borrow so much money from China? I would say that capital trumps all, national security is only a factor when capital meets resistance.
———————————————
There’s a solution to that debt problem. Please recall that Iraq was borrowing money from Kuwait to finance that war with Iran in the 80’s (instigated by the USA of course). When the time came to pay the debt back. Iraq had a huge army and a small Kuwait asking to pay back … Solution? Of course, invade!
Now, we have the USA with a huge debt which it’ll never pay back (let’s be realistic). Solution?
(Hint: USA has a huge Army)
”Father Ted to the rescue here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98hO97ky-sA”
Its a classic moment Aleks, and credit to you for putting it up there. The show is hugely popular with Russians here – its probably the only Irish tv program they will willingly watch.
”Coming to think of it, China is quite a randy panda (economically speaking). I won\’t even mention how the bamboo might feel about this.”
To quote Seamus Moore, from his infamous ‘Tinker’s Poteen’ album – a few lines from the ‘Big Bamboo’
‘There was a Chinaman
Called Dick Hung Low
Got married and he went to live in Ballinasloe
The wife divorced him
Very very quick
She liked bamboo
But not chopsticks’
”only common ground for discussion is found in some bimbo’s tits”
She’s hardly a bimbo, just cos she puts em out there. And I think you’ll find men the world over find common ground on few things except a good pair of knockers.
Unless you’re Shedd, of course.
”All this talk of boobs and me being stuck on a platform with 296 men is causing me to vent more than usual.”
Sorry about that Tim. I should be reminding you of boobs, tits, knockers, funbags, front-paws, gazungas, diddies etc. Big juicy tits. Glorious, fantastic, delectable knockers.
Sorry again Tim
”Perhaps this is why most people rather discuss what’s-her-name’s silicone filled bra (well, that and the fact that Ger is really, really horny). ”
Sean, a pair a day keeps the doctor away.
”It will be a right wing religious fundamentalist bloodbath.”
Behold, the Handmaid’s Tale shall come to pass!!:-)
The US isnt that nutty, is it?
Sean, a pair a day keeps the doctor away.
Then it sounds like you really need to refill you prescription.
The US isnt that nutty, is it?
Well I was speaking of the world. But in the US the only real political organizations at the grassroots level are churches, many of which are non-denominational, politically right, and religiously fanatic. So any potential “soviet” would spring up in the chapel (which in the suburbs at least here in LA, are in mini-malls and converted corporate office buildings.)
I experienced the S&L financial crisis, which was much deeper than any blip that occurred after 9/11.
I read about the S&L crisis in an economics book. If people think that the current credit crunch and the financial troubles are the result of stupidity of the most idiotic kind, they obviously have never read about the S&L. I think Milo Minderbinder’s business plans in Catch-22 were based on sounder economic grounds than S&L. This current crisis doesn’t even compare. At least there doesn’t seem to be elements of gross corruption in this current crisis. Yet, anyway.
Like said, yesterday, it’s one of those moments where the concrete busts through ideology.
S’funny, because those of use who are genuine free-marketeers, and think any financial institution facing collapse should be allowed to do so watched with disinterest by the government, think that ideology (i.e. free markets cannot be trusted wherea the state is responsible) is taking over the concrete of free-market principles.
I don’t see the government intervention as a triumph of reality over ideology, more I see it as a triumph of a different ideology over reality.
Why does John Carpenter’s “They Live” spring to mind? Maybe I’m a closet commie after all…
Keeping the doomsayers in mind, here is my top ten list of apocalyptic songs:
10: Frank Loesser, (I’d Like to Get You on a) Slow Boat to China
9: Мама, мы все сошли с ума, Кино
8: Brain Damage/Us and Them, Pink Floyd
7: (I Just) Died in your Arms Tonight, Cutting Crew
6: Walk on the Wild Side, Lou Reed
5: Boom Boom, John Lee Hooker
4: Whiskey in the Jar, Thin Lizzy
3: Adagio in G Minor, Albinoni
2: The End, The Doors
1: The Final Countdown, Europe
For those with a more positive bent:
10: Show Must Go On, Queen
9: Time Warp, Rocky Horror Picture Show
8: Hysteria, Def Leppard
7: Money for Nothing, Dire Straits
6: Take Five, Dave Brubeck
5: Hold on, I’m Coming, Sam and Dave
4: I Believe in Miracles, Hot Chocolate
3: New Life, Depeche Mode
2: All Right Now, Free
1: Beautiful World, Devo
Not so sure about the juxtaposition…
: The real estate in Moscow is more valuable than in NYC
The main reason for that is that Russia does not have any other investment mechanisms. The stock market is small, mutual funds are far and between, banks are not trusted.
The first time I went to St Pete 4 years ago I was shocked at the visual display of wealth – Bentleys, pricy boutiques, fake Tudors all over Karelian isthmus. But then I realized – this is all they have. When I talk to my friends, I am appalled at how little they save if anything at all. Except for a couple of millionaires, but those did not save in Russia. Their money is stashed in the West already.
Adding to Kolya’s anecdote about his relative after 9/11, I remember my father warning me about US turning against immigrants after that. Quite often we extrapolate what we know on what we do not. Ivanod and Medvedev here are classic examples.
They seem to forget that just US federal budget is twice the size of Russia’s GDP.
“Its a classic moment Aleks, and credit to you for putting it up there. The show is hugely popular with Russians here – its probably the only Irish tv program they will willingly watch.”
No Aifec?
“They seem to forget that just US federal budget is twice the size of Russia’s GDP.”
Elephants are bigger than people, too. That’s why elephants never get sick.
The main reason for that is that Russia does not have any other investment mechanisms.
It’s also down to the fact that there is very, very little real estate for sale in Moscow relative to the size of the city. Thanks to the ludicrous requirement that everyone must be registered in a property and to be registered in a property you must own it, the housing market in Russia is hopelessly truncated.
“6: Walk on the Wild Side, Lou Reed”
What’s apocalyptic about Walk on the Wild Side?
I vote for Moon over Marin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4SQqPSdJUU
The crowded future stings my eyes
I still find time to exercise
In uniform with two white stripes
Unlock my section of the sand
It’s fenced off to the water’s edge
I clamp a gasmask on my head
[Chorus]
On my beach at night
Bathe in my moonlight
Another tanker’s hit the rocks
Abandoned to spill out its guts
The sand is laced with sticky glops
O’ Shimmering moonlight sheen upon
The waves and water clogged with oil
White gases steam up from the soil
[Chorus]
I squash dead fish between my toes
Try not to step on any bones
I turn around and I go home
I slip back through my basement door
Switch off all that I own below
Dive in my scalding wooden tub
My own beach at night
Electric Moonlight
There will always be a moon
Over Marin
“А в попугаях а га-а-аразда длинееее” (с)
If I’m classic – Cyrill is antique example
PS. The best economic songs?
1. “Поле чудес в стране дураков”
Не прячьте ваши денежки по банкам и углам!
Не прячьте ваши денежки – иначе быть беде!
А в полночь ваши денежки заройте в землю там,
заройте в землю где
Не горы, не овраги и не лес,
Не океан без дна и берегов,
А поле, поле, поле, поле чудес.
Поле чудес – в стране дураков!
2. “На дурака не нужен нож”
На дурака не нужен нож.
Ему с три короба наврешь
И делай с ним что хошь
На жадину не нужен нож.
Ему покажешь медный грош
И делай с ним что хош.
etc.
All basics of free market and socks exchange
Because of Soviet censorship for “adult” movies all real jokes and wisdom were hidden in “kids” movies/cartoons. That’s why I consider Spiderman and other men/women films so boring and stupid. Everyone could jump from WTC if he is a mutant. But how to survive if you re ordinary person – among admirals and kgb agents – is much more exciting…
“What’s apocalyptic about Walk on the Wild Side?”
It is a fairly bleak song where everyone is only thinking about their own self-interest. Though I do admit my list is certainly less than perfect. WorWS became even better for me when I discovered that all the characters are real people from LR’s days in AW’s Factory. Ooh!
“It is a fairly bleak song where everyone is only thinking about their own self-interest. Though I do admit my list is certainly less than perfect. WorWS became even better for me when I discovered that all the characters are real people from LR’s days in AW’s Factory. ”
“Apocalyptic” means “end of the world,” not “about cynical people.”
“Like a Rolling Stone” is about Edie Sedgewick, you know.
“Everyone could jump from WTC if he is a mutant.”
This actually depends on the specific mutation. Professor X would have a problem. Sean could tell us much more.
Oh, duh. How could I forget? The best song about impending doom is obviously God Save the Queen. Still one of the best songs ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6X1fVmneWs
If I’m really stretching it, I would say it’s just like the banks not willing to lend to each other… On reflection, that’s too much of a stretch.
Nope, you are right. Good call on GStQ.
I left out the punk stuff as I couldn’t think of a reliably positive one for the genre (pushing Tenpole Tudor’s ‘Wunderbar’ or the Dickies’ ‘Tra-la-la’ (banana splits song) is always good for a mindless headbang along with Nellie the Elephant, though these days I have to take care that my head doesn’t come off). I was tempted by the Clash’s ‘London’s Burning’ though.
Just having a look through some titles at hand:
No More Heroes,
Something Better Change,
Money (the Flying Lizards version of course),
What do I get?,
Kill the Poor,
I’m not a Fool,
Anarchy in the UK (Woot!),
California Uber Alles,
Straight to Hell/I Fought the Law,
Ignorance is Bliss/I Wanna be Sedated…
World Destruction, of course.
“Who wants to be a president or king?” “ME!”
Ah, the wonderful Reagan years. God, he sucked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPHDQLuZaGo&feature=related
World Destruction by John Lydon and Afrika Bambaata, of course.
(Hint: USA has a huge Army)
Answer – many social services and other programs will disappear before the US Army if any Republican is in office (which is very likely, in my opinion).
Again, full of wishful thinking with not a clue how things work in this country. Why do you think the US has such a large military budget in the first place? Because Americans would rather put a cruise missile up Achmed’s ass than worry about feeding homeless children (whose parents are probably too lazy to get a job anyway).
I’m not saying this is right, but evidence shows that is how Americans largely think. Even during with military cuts of the Clinton years, our defense spending dwarfed that of any other country in the world.
It is the not-so-secret wish of most Republicans to dismantle large parts of the federal government, outside of the US military. In a real financial crisis, everything from the Department of Education to Social Security might be decimated or disintegrated.
“Everyone could jump from WTC if he is a mutant.”
Spider-man is not a mutant. He was bitten by a radioactive (old school) or genetically-modified spider.
At least there doesn’t seem to be elements of gross corruption in this current crisis. Yet, anyway..
Not all of the S&L crisis was about corruption, however. Many savings and loans simply made risky and ill-advised loans. In that sense, this is similar – many high risk borrowers were given mortgages by lenders who felt the risk was worth the rewards. Also, as I understand it, they sold off or repackaged these loans to other investment corporations.
Some of this is simply good people with good credit caught in unfortunate situations. I could cite my brother in Las Vegas (this one manages a sports bar in Lost Wages). He bought his house about 5 years ago, before the peak in the real estate market. He has steady work, but his wages have dropped about 15% due to decline in tourism in Vegas, etc. His home value has become roughly half what it was at the time he took his mortgage, with him owing roughly $225,000 on a home he could only sell for about $120,000 now. He might have been able to just keep making his payments and wait a few years for the market to recover. However, the nail in the coffin was he doesn’t have health insurance and had a ruptured appendix and subsequent surgery and hospital stay last year.
The end result – he filed bankruptcy last month.
American Dream as seen on TV…
PS. Sorry for your brother…well I have Fk00.000 on my “sweet home” but I don’t care about medical insurance. After six months here everyone is entitled for it (free). Plus my extra coverage – for car, home and health (family of four) – is around 300 per month. We had two major surgeries already – and I didn’t notice it (in terms of money). Authoritarian system indeed!
But you live on an atypical magic island.
“Spider-man is not a mutant. He was bitten by a radioactive (old school) or genetically-modified spider.”
Thank you for the digression into Marvel Biology.
magic?
kannski, Happy Feet….
but same shit basically – free media (all newspapers and TV belongs to two rival families), democratic government (even Blair served less years than local PM who just passed his chair to his buddy after been bored), free market (banks declared excellent profits but we are in deep credit crisis and local money lost 50% of value in 6 months). But no deficit of (scape)goats
“Again, full of wishful thinking with not a clue how things work in this country.”
————————————————
W. Shedd,
Really? Everyone on this blog seems to understand very well what’s going on in Russia and so speaks of its leadership, finances, economy in a patronizing way. By the same token why cannot I speak of USA as if I understand everything?
The main reason for that is that Russia does not have any other investment mechanisms.
It’s also down to the fact that there is very, very little real estate for sale in Moscow relative to the size of the city. Thanks to the ludicrous requirement that everyone must be registered in a property and to be registered in a property you must own it, the housing market in Russia is hopelessly truncated.
————————————————
Man,
you cannot imagine how wrong you are about Moscow real estate!
“Quite often we extrapolate what we know on what we do not. Ivanod and Medvedev here are classic examples.”
————————————————-
People assign to others all of their own qualities (projection).
Nothing new, just want to repeat what Sean said. To this:
“Then, somehow, many of these capitalists who frowned upon government interference clamor for government help.”
Sean replied with:
“I happen to think that times like these are moments when the concrete bursts through ideology. For example, what many free marketeers would normally call “welfare” and “socialism” is now deemed as “necessity”.”
and then
“What interests me in all this economic quaking is the space it has opened up. People are now talking about formerly forbidden things: nationalization, regulation, etc. I think this is significant, however brief it might turn out to be. Like said, yesterday, it’s one of those moments where the concrete busts through ideology. These are rare and I think we should savor it in a perverted kind of way.”
Just want to point out that I found the above quite interesting.
Thanks Kolya. I at least try to be interesting. Sometimes I even succeed. Anyway, I’d like to hear what you think of what you quoted above? My statements are still quite undeveloped.
Speaking of apocaliptic songs, I can’t believe I forgot this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aHFRwGD47M
And this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIdcDL64KCE&feature=related
Big A, Little A…
In general, I hate Crass, but in this case…
It is the not-so-secret wish of most Republicans to dismantle large parts of the federal government, outside of the US military.
They never, ever implement it though. The federal government has grown massively under every president. Even the supposed small-government Reagan lavished billions on government-funded activities. The federal government has grown even more under Bush. There is no chance it’s not going to grow under a McCain presidency.
you cannot imagine how wrong you are about Moscow real estate!
Yeah, sure I am. I mean, all those new apartments and all those adverts, there must be loads of property for sale in Moscow, right?
you cannot imagine how wrong you are about Moscow real estate!
Yeah, sure I am. I mean, all those new apartments and all those adverts, there must be loads of property for sale in Moscow, right?
———————————————-
That\’s right – lot\’s of new real estate on the market. Unfortunately, it\’s very expensive and even though 10% of Moscovites are (dollar) millionairs, and otherwise they have highest salaries in Russia, buying a condo is still very expensive for the most people. So, yes, Moscow is overbuilt – many apartments are for sale.
PS.: Anti-spam word: RENT
”Yeah, sure I am. I mean, all those new apartments and all those adverts, there must be loads of property for sale in Moscow, right?”
I have to agree with this, sorry President Medvedev. Unless Moscow real estate economics are the opposite to that of everywhere else, prices are high when there is a paucity of available homes. I find it very hard to believe that developers will simply let huge quantities of apartments lay unsold rather than reduce the price, which would have a reducing effect elsewhere. We’ve had a huge construction boom here for the last few years that has now collapsed, and the collapse began initially because too many houses were built. Walking back from the pub last night with my mate we counted around 30 unsold houses in a posh new estate of 100 houses, and a large number of houses where construction had just stopped in the middle cos of lack of money to finish. Ireland has serious problems ahead very similar to that of the US, and already has huge job losses and share price collapse. Me and my mate are fairly broke ourselves, but we grant ourselves the luxury of 3 pints each (about $20) once a week. On our walk to the pub we pass loads of new houses in that same estate. Inside the sitting-room windows of all the houses we see young couples sitting watching tv. They cant afford to go out. No surer sign of economic disaster than the Irish not drinking I can tell you.
”No Aifec?”
Whats Aifec Chris?
”Yeah, sure I am. I mean, all those new apartments and all those adverts, there must be loads of property for sale in Moscow, right?”
I have to agree with this, sorry President Medvedev. Unless Moscow real estate economics are the opposite to that of everywhere else, prices are high when there is a paucity of available homes. I find it very hard to believe that developers will simply let huge quantities of apartments lay unsold rather than reduce the price, which would have a reducing effect elsewhere.
————————————————-
Irishman
I agree with your reasonings, and by all accounts the real estate market in Moscow should have collapsed already: too much is being built, prices outrageous. The problem is with the enormous amount of money infused into Russia recently. Real estate investors can afford sitting on unsold property. Too much money concentrated in Moscow, and investing in real estate is viewed as a ’safe bet’.
P.S.: Anti-spam word is “rent” again. Is it a hint?
“Whats Aifec Chris?”
Irish Dawson’s Creek, isn’t it?
Sorry, AIFRIC.
What a weird-sounding language:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeFIUp0-RlQ
”Real estate investors can afford sitting on unsold property. Too much money concentrated in Moscow, and investing in real estate is viewed as a ’safe bet’.”
Well, fair enough President Medvedev. They muts be the first investors in the world who can invest with no return indefinitely!:-) I suppose they think they’ll shift the property eventually.
”“Whats Aifec Chris?”
Irish Dawson’s Creek, isn’t it?”
Good man Chris, Aifric! You would think it is an Irish Dawson’s, but sadly, because it is Irish-language and shown on TG4, the Irish language channel, it is marginalised and likely has only a very small portion of viewers, those of the Gaelteacht (Irish speaking) areas. I dont know though really and must ask some teens around the place if they watch it. I know it is set in Connemara, a place as windy as Wellington, so their arses must be pretty cold in those uniforms, which arent typical of Ireland at all, more like Aussie or Kiwi school uniforms. If you look behind singing Aifric in the opening credits you’ll see Connemara with its stony, rocky, bare environment. She sings something like ”This is my life, this my story”
As for weird-sounding, yes, its certainly not pretty on the ears like Spanish! As far as I know its one of the oldest languages still in use in Europe, behind Welsh and its in the same family as Welsh though they are totally mutually incomprehensible.
If you want to watch a few programs about the problems facing the language, and see some nice parts of the country visit the link below and then click on ‘episodes’.
Its about an American, reared here since he was 12, who goes and learns Irish in Connemara and has a right go at us for treating Irish poorly. Its really funny in parts, especially the Irish language version of ‘Jump’.
http://www.rte.ie/tv/inthenameofthefada/
Elephants are bigger than people, too. That’s why elephants never get sick.
Пока толстый похудеет, тощий помрет…
PS.: Anti-spam word: RENT
Kommersant has a quite informative article on renting in Moscow. Too bad it’s only in Russian.
That\’s right – lot\’s of new real estate on the market. Unfortunately, it\’s very expensive and even though 10% of Moscovites are (dollar) millionairs, and otherwise they have highest salaries in Russia, buying a condo is still very expensive for the most people.
That only millionaires can afford to buy an apartment in Moscow should be evidence enough that there are not many properties for sale. In fact, the only property I ever see advertised in Moscow in any great number is millionaire apartments. Where is all the normal housing? Not for sale, that’s where.
“Its about an American, reared here since he was 12, who goes and learns Irish in Connemara and has a right go at us for treating Irish poorly.”
My friend Wendy in Dublin told me about this guy.
“only millionaires can afford to buy an apartment in Moscow ”
Huh? This is not true at all.
Huh? This is not true at all.
Yeah, it was hyperbole. It is pretty damned hard for anyone who isn’t pretty damned well off to find somewhere, though. There have been a few Russians from Sakhalin go to work in Moscow and not been in with a ghost of a chance of buying something. There just doesn’t seem to be much low- to-mid priced housing for sale.
<blockquote>Elephants are bigger than people, too. That’s why elephants never get sick.
Пока толстый похудеет, тощий помрет/…</blockquote>
Are you interpreting business talks with same accuracy?
There just doesn’t seem to be much low- to-mid priced housing for sale.
Not to mention that Russia has a long standing historical problem of a shortage of housing. I think one test is to survey how many divorced couples still live together and how many newly married couples can’t afford to move out of their inlaws because they can’t afford to rent or buy.
I also wonder how many Russians are getting cheated out of these developer schemes where they give up their apartment for a promise of a new one in the new building or in the suburbs.
I heard a paper at last year’s AAASS which talked about how when Russians buy some of these newly constructed apartments in Moscow, they only really purchase the shell. Everything else, pluming, lighting, etc is extra.
Of course there is also the scams where developers will sell an apartment to more than one buyer and disappearing with the money. But maybe this is happening less with the introduction of credit and mortgages.
Another issue, and probably Tim can speak more to this, is the difference in available affordable housing in the provinces as opposed to Moscow. As we all know, the two are different animals.
I’m sure you will love it (no Semenovich kind of stuff)
http://mishkanazapade.livejournal.com/270825.html?thread=595945
A kind of “back to future” stuff
I’m sure you will love it (no Semenovich kind of stuff)
. I’ve found a few things that are not available in the USA: a lot of slim people, empty highways and ceramic tiles roofs, which are much better than ‘asphalt shingles’.
http://mishkanazapade.livejournal.com/270825.html?thread=595945
A kind of “back to future” stuff
—————————————–
Fantastic pictures! They remind me something
Also, when capitalism comes to N. Korea, those delapidated apartment buildings will become a very expensive properties, each apartment going for the price of two American houses.
<i>So, yes, Moscow is overbuilt – many apartments are for sale.</i>
This is a formula for real estate market collapse, were it true. Regardless of how expensive a seller/builder THINKS his property should be, it’s real value is only what the market will support. If there is more available housing than there is buyers, the market will drop.
You can make all the statements you wish about sellers sitting on their homes/condos until they get their price, but invariable they have to get their money, their investment, out of the building.
So, I am skeptical of there being lots of places for sale in Moscow. I’ve also witnessed the American-style suburban sprawl that is growing around Moscow, which is usually the result of unavailability of housing (of one sort or another) within a urban area.
There just doesn’t seem to be much low- to-mid priced housing for sale.
Not to mention that Russia has a long standing historical problem of a shortage of housing.
—————————————
The key word here “historical”. Never in Russian history we bult so much housing as we are doing now. Unfortunately, the prices are too high. Too much money sloshing around Russia!
So, I am skeptical of there being lots of places for sale in Moscow
———————————————–
Check any Russian internet-portal – they are swarming with offers of property for sale in Moscow, since early 90s Russia has changed much more than the USA has.
“As far as I know its one of the oldest languages still in use in Europe, behind Welsh and its in the same family as Welsh though they are totally mutually incomprehensible.”
He-he: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usOg34kG-IA
Are you interpreting business talks with same accuracy?
Huh? Where did you see an example of interpretation? It appears you don’t even know what “interpretation” means.
Dear Chrisisus,
Please either confirm or deny that you are a member of the ‘Massive from Staines’.
I believe many lurkers would like to know this.
What the hell is the Massive from Staines?
Sorry, I meant the ‘Massiv from West Staines”
“Ali G is the leader of Da West Staines Massiv, a fictional gang composed of a group of wannabe gangsters from Staines (a small, affluent, suburban town to the west of London)…”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_G_Indahouse
World peace depends on your reply.
Another issue, and probably Tim can speak more to this, is the difference in available affordable housing in the provinces as opposed to Moscow. As we all know, the two are different animals.
I wouldn’t really know: Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk is as much an anomaly as Moscow. It’s an oil town just coming towards the end of a 5-year boom. A lot of people here sold their apartments and moved to St. Petersburg, a few others to Moscow. But I know that people who came to work here from other cities struggle like hell with rent, in fact the only ones who don’t struggle are those who already own a place or live in one of the construction camps. Most Russians here still live with their parents. Average rent for a crappy 1-bed apartment is about $1,000-$1,200 per month, average salary about $1,200-$1,500. If you don’t have free accommodation in this place, it is a struggle, and I’ve heard the exact same about Moscow. Quite what will happen once the construction works finish early next year remains to be seen, but rental prices have been dropping a lot this last year. Unfortunately, so has the number of jobs.
In any normal country, somebody could sell their home in Khabarovsk, rent for a while in Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk whilst getting the experience, then move somewhere else and buy. This is impossible in Russia, because as soon as they sell their home they lose their registration. I’d love to see a study on what this costs the Russian economy, because mobility of labour is one of the cornerstones of any country getting rich.
The key word here “historical”. Never in Russian history we bult so much housing as we are doing now. Unfortunately, the prices are too high. Too much money sloshing around Russia!
I don’t want to keep preaching economics on this site, but if the prices are too high then there are not enough houses being built.
As far as I know its one of the oldest languages still in use in Europe, behind Welsh and its in the same family as Welsh though they are totally mutually incomprehensible.
I believe Basque is the oldest language in Europe, and totally unrelated to any other language.
And of course Welsh is older, the Irish copied everything from us. Before they borrowed the Welsh language, they just grunted at each other. Some of them still do.
I don’t want to keep preaching economics on this site, but if the prices are too high then there are not enough houses being built.
Actually, I should clarify this: Moscow is not going to build its way out of the problem that houses are too expensive. They need to get a proper housing market going in its existing housing, which means ditching the registration laws. Otherwise, as Wally has observed, the only option is to keep expanding the city outwards, which will do wonders for the traffic. Moscow really, really doesn’t need to get any bigger.
The key word here “historical”. Never in Russian history we bult so much housing as we are doing now. Unfortunately, the prices are too high. Too much money sloshing around Russia!
I don’t want to keep preaching economics on this site, but if the prices are too high then there are not enough houses being built.
——————————————-
… or there is just too much money in the system. Yeah, no need to preach economics.
It’s amazing how well some people on this blog know EXACTLY what’s going on in Russia, even without ever being there.
“As far as I know its one of the oldest languages still in use in Europe, behind Welsh and its in the same family as Welsh though they are totally mutually incomprehensible.”
Celtic languages are Indo-European and so relative newcomers.
Basque is I think supposed to be a holdover of a pre-Indo-European neolithic language. (well, all languages are holdovers of neolithic languages really, but you know what I mean).
”Celtic languages are Indo-European and so relative newcomers.
”
I didnt mean oldest, I meant oldest still in daily use! At least thats the propoganda we hear here.
”And of course Welsh is older, the Irish copied everything from us. Before they borrowed the Welsh language, they just grunted at each other. Some of them still do. ”
Looks like we copied your rugby as well. And perhaps improved on it – ye have only beaten us once in Cardiff in about 8 millions years. Maybe ye need to figure out our grunts!
… or there is just too much money in the system. Yeah, no need to preach economics.
Lots of spare cash means a high demand, which is only one side of the equation. If high demand is causing house prices to rise, it must follow that demand is outstripping supply.
It’s amazing how well some people on this blog know EXACTLY what’s going on in Russia, even without ever being there.
I take it you’re referring to somebody else here.
Looks like we copied your rugby as well. And perhaps improved on it – ye have only beaten us once in Cardiff in about 8 millions years. Maybe ye need to figure out our grunts!
Two (grunt) grand (grunt) slams (grunt) in (grunt) four (grunt) years.
“I didnt mean oldest, I meant oldest still in daily use! At least thats the propoganda we hear here.”
Could be. But how similar is modern Irish to the Irish spoken 2000 years ago? Is it really the same language? Italian, French, Portugese, Romanian, and Spanish are all forms of Modern Latin, after all.
But how similar is modern Irish to the Irish spoken 2000 years ago
Welsh won’t have advanced much. Trust me on this. If only half the people have learned to walk upright, what hope the language?
“If only half the people have learned to walk upright, what hope the language?”
OMG. I just had a horrible thought. What if the Welsh are herding, not sheep, but — Welshmen still in their more primitive state? Kind of a Morlocks/Eloi thing.
The horror!
What if the Welsh are herding…
Unlikely. Herding is a verb, therefore some sort of effort is required. Unless that verb is “drinking”, forget about it.
Maybe the sheep are herding the Welsh?
”Two (grunt) grand (grunt) slams (grunt) in (grunt) four (grunt) years. ”
Yes, indeed, but just one win over the Irish in Cardiff since 3000BC. (discounting JPR Williams crew, who spanked everyone)
And have ye ever beaten England 5 years in a row twice, like oursleves? We can never beat the French though, even when we are better, which is seldom enough.
(blantant clutching at straws I know, but I have to try)
”Could be. But how similar is modern Irish to the Irish spoken 2000 years ago? Is it really the same language? ”
Early Irish is comprehensible if you speak modern Irish, but its a seperate degree course, etc at university. So its not the same really I guess.
”Welsh won’t have advanced much. Trust me on this. If only half the people have learned to walk upright, what hope the language?”
Wales is a funny country amoung all the British Isles – not a whole lot is known about them here in Ireland, whilst we’d have some idea of the English and Scots. The language looks brutally difficult. I’ve heard the Welsh are very grumpy and unfriendly to outsiders who come to the north of Wales to live, but how true that is I dunno.
Man U one-nil up at Chelsea at HT, by the way.
The language looks brutally difficult. I’ve heard the Welsh are very grumpy and unfriendly to outsiders who come to the north of Wales to live, but how true that is I dunno.
The north Waleans are reject Scousers who are detested by the south Waleans. I am a south-west Walean.
Man U one-nil up at Chelsea at HT, by the way.
I’m following it on BBC Live Text. I’ve got a tenner on Man Utd to win 1-0 at 10/1.
Sorry, the odds are 7/1. I’m getting carried away.
… or there is just too much money in the system. Yeah, no need to preach economics.
Lots of spare cash means a high demand, which is only one side of the equation. If high demand is causing house prices to rise, it must follow that demand is outstripping supply.
It’s amazing how well some people on this blog know EXACTLY what’s going on in Russia, even without ever being there.
I take it you’re referring to somebody else here.
——————————————-
Sorry, my mistake – Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk has been within the Russian domain since 1945.
<i>… or there is just too much money in the system. Yeah, no need to preach economics.</i>
Which is either caused by inflation or because as I said in the very beginning of this discussion: there are no other investment mechanisms beside real estate.
It’s not only real estate that is expensive in Russia (I know St. Petersburg only but I doubt Moscow is cheaper…) I tried to compare consumer goods prices from food, to clothing, to cars. With very few exceptions, prices there are at least 20% higher. Same thing with Europe actually.
<i>… or there is just too much money in the system. Yeah, no need to preach economics.</i>
Which is either caused by inflation or because as I said in the very beginning of this discussion: there are no other investment mechanisms beside real estate.
It’s not only real estate that is expensive in Russia (I know St. Petersburg only but I doubt Moscow is cheaper…) I tried to compare consumer goods prices from food, to clothing, to cars. With very few exceptions, prices there are at least 20% higher. Same thing with Europe actually.
——————————————-
Of course the prices are higher than in the USA. Isn’t it clear why? The US prints paper-money and dumps this paper abroad in the form of payments for oil or otherwise. This amounts to exporting inflation to other markets, which is one of the parameters of the US “economic growth”. They’ve been doing it since the end of WWII. You can see this in Russia, Europe and elsewhere. US exports enormous amounts of printed money, however try to bring it back – never thought why Russian oligarchs don’t live in the US?
There was a very interesting documentary on this subject called “Priceless Dollar” – I recommend it. Maybe Tim has watched in Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk.
P.S.: Anti-spam word: rent
The US prints paper-money and dumps this paper abroad in the form of payments for oil or otherwise.
If the US did this, the value of the dollar would have collapsed years ago. This is a myth which gets peddled alongside “the US would be screwed if Iran switched to trading oil in Euros”.
The US prints paper-money and dumps this paper abroad in the form of payments for oil or otherwise. If the US did this, the value of the dollar would have collapsed years ago. This is a myth which gets peddled alongside “the US would be screwed if Iran switched to trading oil in Euros”. ———————————————
Tim,
Perhaps I also shouldn’t lecture here on economics.
It’s your right to think that there’s no problem with the US government (or FRS?) printing dollars to finance its debt, social payments etc and then dump these money on the rest of the world.
You should be versed in the Russian language, hence I recommend that you watch the following Russian documentary:
http://rutube.ru/tracks/497088.html?v=66bb08ead2e0c2fb2fa31317997959d7
entitled “Priceless dollar”.
Then, hopefully, we can talk. Best wishes, DM.
P.S.: anti-spam word: connect
Of course the prices are higher than in the USA. Isn’t it clear why? The US prints paper-money and dumps this paper abroad in the form of payments for oil or otherwise. This amounts to exporting inflation to other markets, which is one of the parameters of the US “economic growth”.
If this were the case, then Americans either are the world’s greatest and smartest swindlers or the rest of the world is dumb as a door knob. If such a brilliant mechanism existed, what prevents other countries from a) doing exactly the same thing or b) not take the inflation laden paper?
I most certainly expected more common sense and less gobbling up gobbledygook from a democratically self-appointed President.
I would also recommend not trusting TV documentaries. I can point you to documentaries from the Flat Earth Society. But, OK, I will watch it.
………………
So, you liked that “documentary” Dima? I liked it to, especially the thread about Jews that control Federal Reserve and thus the world. I was wondering when this subject is going to rear its head.
Overall, the whole thing is based on a lie people seem to swallow with glee because it gives them someone else to blame – the Fed. Federal Reserve System is not “частная контора”. Jews don’t control it, and high prices in Russia are not created by American Jews, Dima. Nice documentary, thank you for sharing it and opening a window into yourself.
So, you liked that “documentary” Dima? I liked it to, especially the thread about Jews that control Federal Reserve and thus the world. I was wondering when this subject is going to rear its head.
Overall, the whole thing is based on a lie people seem to swallow with glee because it gives them someone else to blame – the Fed. Federal Reserve System is not “частная контора”. Jews don’t control it, and high prices in Russia are not created by American Jews, Dima. Nice documentary, thank you for sharing it and opening a window into yourself.
——————————————–
I don’t know what you are talking about. The documentary “Priceless Dollar” was shown on Russian TV, there’s nothing bad said about Jews. Shame on you, to play such low games. I’m partly Jewish myself, by the way.
Oh, yeah. A great documentary. I learned that Lincoln, McKinley and did he say Coolidge (?) were killed in order to create this conspirational bank? Learn something new every day.
I don’t know what you are talking about. The documentary “Priceless Dollar” was shown on Russian TV, there’s nothing bad said about Jews. Shame on you, to play such low games. I’m partly Jewish myself, by the way.
OH, then you did not see it or did not pay attention, or that kind of talk is so ingrained that you did not find anything objectionable.
It was there in the obvious. Look at “Урок III”, that starts with a slight insinuation that the post WWI instability might have been created by design, then comes Михаил Хазин, economist, that relays the story of one “хитрый, старый”, Jew named Rothschild that had a wonderful idea to replace gold with paper money… after that it immediately cuts to FED that is supposedly a private outfit still controlled by heirs of those guys from the 18th century that came up with the idea and the only place that prints dollars.
I have seen plenty of documentaries like that in the US. There was absolutely nothing new in it other then introduction of Russia as a victim. Oh, for sure, it does not blame Jews directly, but insinuations and implications are obvious.
What is appalling that something this crude and inaccurate can find its way on ТВ Центр. Here, junk like that gets time on brokered channels or maybe get a late night run on a kook show for insomniacs.
Oh, for sure, it does not blame Jews directly,
———————————————
Please be objective next time. I\’m sure the documentary didn\’t blame Jews or other nations. People always see what they want to see.
“I would also recommend not trusting TV documentaries. ”
They are about as reliable as radio shows, I hear.
Please be objective next time. I\’m sure the documentary didn\’t blame Jews or other nations. People always see what they want to see.
I am very objective. They did not blame directly, but it is no different from every single conspiracy BS – they end up implying Jews. Otherwise, what was the point of “старый хитрый еврей Ротшильд” that created the whole system and the heirs of the people that created the FED control it? In a country with such a glorious past (and present) of anti-semitism, the implication is obvious.
Is this the quality of stuff that normally gets to be aired on Russian TV? And some here thought CNN was bad. Word usage was classic. IMF is a “конторка”. I forgot how well suited the Russian language is for propaganda and how important use of diminutives can be with sanitized population.
It’s your right to think that there’s no problem with the US government (or FRS?) printing dollars to finance its debt, social payments etc and then dump these money on the rest of the world.
I’m not saying it’s right: I’m saying it doesn’t happen. Like I said, any government who simply prints off paper money in order to finance things quickly finds its currency to be worthless, e.g. Zimbabwe.
Please be objective next time. I\\’m sure the documentary didn\\’t blame Jews or other nations. People always see what they want to see.
I am very objective. They did not blame directly, but it is no different from every single conspiracy BS – they end up implying Jews. Otherwise, what was the point of “старый хитрый еврей Ротшильд” that created the whole system and the heirs of the people that created the FED control it? In a country with such a glorious past (and present) of anti-semitism, the implication is obvious.
Is this the quality of stuff that normally gets to be aired on Russian TV? And some here thought CNN was bad. Word usage was classic. IMF is a “конторка”. I forgot how well suited the Russian language is for propaganda and how important use of diminutives can be with sanitized population.
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They didn\’t blame directly, but you blame directly. It\’s beyond the point. The main idea of the movie: US is using its power to support its currency and export inflation around the world: is it true or not?
It’s your right to think that there’s no problem with the US government (or FRS?) printing dollars to finance its debt, social payments etc and then dump these money on the rest of the world.
I’m not saying it’s right: I’m saying it doesn’t happen. Like I said, any government who simply prints off paper money in order to finance things quickly finds its currency to be worthless, e.g. Zimbabwe.
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There are a few differences between Zimbabwe and USA: the former doesn’t have air carriers, and IMF in its pockets. Zimbabwe cannot force other nations to use the Zimbabwian dollar.
There are a few differences between Zimbabwe and USA: the former doesn’t have air carriers, and IMF in its pockets. Zimbabwe cannot force other nations to use the Zimbabwian dollar.
Nor can the US.
I should add that whether or not the US can force other nations to use its currency has no bearing whatsoever on the nonsense that the US prints money in order to pay for imports.
I should add that whether or not the US can force other nations to use its currency has no bearing whatsoever on the nonsense that the US prints money in order to pay for imports.
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Tim,
I respect your opinion, although I’m not entirely in agreement with it. Nevertheless, at least in Russia we live in a democratic society where everyone is entitled to her or his opinion regarding matters. In the meantime we’ll do our best, to make the proposed changes to our oil and gas trade (i.e., switching to Rubles:
http://thepresidentofrussia.blogspot.com/2008/09/you-wanna-oil-gas-sorry-rubles-only.html
). We shall see how it will NOT affect the American financial system (according to you). Regards, DM.
Back to the documentary. I don’t know how can anyone either defend or recommend it. No doubt about it, the documentary is well produced and professional, but what about its content? Cyrill already quoted the “old, cunning Jew” line. Isolated this phrase may not mean much, but let us not claim naivete here. I don’t know how many obviously objectionable scenes there are in this documentary, since I only skipped over it here and there. But I urge you to look at the howler that I discovered on minute 35. Now we know the REAL reason Presidents Lincoln, McKinley and Coolidge were murdered (yes, Calvin Coolidge, the one who died eight years after leaving the White House). These three presidents were killed by the same cabal of conspirators. Now you know.
Skip to minute 35, if you want to check it out:
http://rutube.ru/tracks/497088.html?v=66bb08ead2e0c2fb2fa31317997959d7
“These three presidents were killed by the same cabal of conspirators. ”
More of Operation Kick Ass 2008?
“More of Operation Kick Ass 2008?”
What’s that?
”Tim,
I respect your opinion, although I’m not entirely in agreement with it. Nevertheless, at least in Russia we live in a democratic society where everyone is entitled to her or his opinion regarding matters. ”
President Medvedev,
with the greatest respect, the US does not print dollars to pay bills or for exports. If they did the currency would collapse. This is a basic economic rule that the cats on the street know. There isnt any escaping this fact.
”More of Operation Kick Ass 2008?”
Looks like it. And we’re next. Word over here is that Aifric is actually a mind control device designed to turn Russia unfriendly pundits and trolls into Mike Averko fans. Mike himself just happened to be on the ground in Gori just before the war started. Coincidence? I think not.
“More of Operation Kick Ass 2008?”
What’s that? ”
Kolya, its Mike Averko’s masterplan to remove the likes of me and Doss from the face of the earth and to otherwise influence/defeat unfriendly media organs.
Wow! Thanks, Ger. That’s good to know. You and Doss be careful and good luck!
Now we know the REAL reason Presidents Lincoln, McKinley and Coolidge were murdered (yes, Calvin Coolidge, the one who died eight years after leaving the White House).
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By the same token we “know” that Putin ordered the assassination of Litvinenko in the silliest way possible.
President Medvedev,
with the greatest respect, the US does not print dollars to pay bills or for exports. If they did the currency would collapse.
=====================================
Irishman:
I agree the currency might collapse. Way too many dollars are sloshing around the world.
So could you please explain to me why did Nixon took the dollar off the Golden Standard in 1973? To me it looks like to print more dollars (to finance Vietnam and other “projects”). Next, wasn’t it followed by an unprecedented inflation?
”Irishman:
I agree the currency might collapse. Way too many dollars are sloshing around the world.
So could you please explain to me why did Nixon took the dollar off the Golden Standard in 1973? To me it looks like to print more dollars (to finance Vietnam and other “projects”). Next, wasn’t it followed by an unprecedented inflation?”
President Medvedev, if the Americans DID print dollars to pay bills the currency WOULD collapse. But they havent. The fact that there are a lot of dollars around the place is testament to how big an economy the US is, not that they are printing more dollars than they actually have.
As for 1973, I dunno what Nixon did or didnt do, but i think it unlikely they printed dollars. And high infation in 1974 onwards was everywhere cos of the oil crisis – if oil rises, so does everything else, especially food, as food needs lots oil to get to the table eg transport, harvesting, fertiliser etc.
”Wow! Thanks, Ger. That’s good to know. You and Doss be careful and good luck! ”
A neighbours cat, who’s normally my friend, scratched me in the dark on the way to the pub the other night when I stopped on the road to give him a chin rub, which usually he loves. I’ve heard since he’s a recipient of Quick Takes and a regular reader of pro-Serb blogs.
I think we can all guess what’s going.
President Medvedev, if the Americans DID print dollars to pay bills the currency WOULD collapse. But they havent. The fact that there are a lot of dollars around the place is testament to how big an economy the US is, not that they are printing more dollars than they actually have.
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Irishman,
here’s an extract from (obviously, not a Russian propaganda) an article “In Gold we trust, not dollar”:
“Today no one in Washington believes for a minute that runaway deficits are going to be curtailed. In March alone, the federal government created an historic $85 billion deficit. The current supplemental bill going through Congress has grown from $92 billion to over $106 billion, and everyone knows it will not draw President Bush’s first veto. Most knowledgeable people therefore assume that inflation of the money supply is not only going to continue, but accelerate. This anticipation, plus the fact that many new dollars have been created over the past 15 years that have not yet been fully discounted, guarantees the further depreciation of the dollar in terms of gold.”
Link:
http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-us-dollars/2007/01/19/
Enjoy!
Quoting Ron Paul is about as sound and persuasive as bringing up a giant Jewish cabal propaganda videos.
Of course it is not Russian propaganda. Neither is the jewish cabal “documentary” you brought up. This stuff all comes from Creature from Jekyll Island. As usual, Russia did not invent it.
Neither is the jewish cabal “documentary” you brought up.
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Cyrill,
Warning: You are going overboard – I didn’t do any of that. The documentary I brought up was devoted to the “priceless dollar”, nothing else. Regards, MD
“Word over here is that Aifric is actually a mind control device designed to turn Russia unfriendly pundits and trolls into Mike Averko fans.”
None of us has ever seen Mike Averko in person. Could the girl who plays Aifric actually BE Mike Averko?
”None of us has ever seen Mike Averko in person. Could the girl who plays Aifric actually BE Mike Averko?”
Unlikely I’d say. Mike hardly speaks English, let alone Irish, and definitely doesnt speak Russian.