Is Putin a Closet Republican?
By Sean at 31 August, 2008, 8:57 am
If Putin was an American politician, what would he be? He is conservative, deeply religious, a patriot, and strong partisan for Russian traditions.
Given this, I doubt we would have seen Putin strutting about on the DNC’s American Idol-esque stage, swearing his undying, almost cultic allegiance to Barak Obama. It’s more likely we would find him preparing to jet to St. Paul to rouse the base in support of McCain. For some, Putin’s Republican affinities are all too clear: Putin is a closet neocon and the his real intent of his interview with CNN was to cast a veiled vote for John McCain.
It is this last point that I find interesting. Mostly because the big question has been what Putin was thinking when he asserted that the US might be behind the Georgian War. Bad information? Kooky conspiracy thinking. An age old Russian paranoia? Or was he somehow trapped in the simulacra of his own state media machine where the lines between reality and virtual are erased? An affirmative to the last question wouldn’t surprise me. I’ve witnessed this discursive circle in Soviet archival documents. The central and local Soviet leadership often referenced the press in internal reports. When I do come across this phenomena, I always ask: Don’t they know that the media is controlled? They can’t actually think the press is some reflection of reality? If the documents are any answer, they do and continue to do so. And this belief is not as simple as them “believing their own bullshit.” That is clear. Nor is such a belief unique to Russia. The real question is how and why this happens My short answer is that Putin & Co. are locked in their own rhetoric. There is no outside discourse with enough truth value to break the logic of their dominant discourse. Their belief, rhetoric, and power to control the parameters of acceptable speech reinforces themselves in a dizzying circle signification.
Some, however, are suggesting there is something more sinister at work in Putin’s allegations. Namely, that it is the way that Putin meddles in American elections. This is the thesis of Ilya Milshtein’s article “Coercion to McCain” (Russian verison). As Milshtein writes,
One way or another, our national leader has “voted” for the republicans for at least four years already.
In the fall of 2004, the Russian president sternly spoke out against democrat John Kerry. Literally equating the liberal candidate to Al-Qaeda, Putin said that a defeat of Bush would be “a grandiose victory for international terrorism.” He repeated this thought he had grown fond of at the moment when America was counting the votes collected by the contenders. If George wins, Putin said, this would mean that “the American public did not allow itself to be frightened, and made a wise choice.”
As you know, the American public lived up to his expectation.
Was Putin’s assertion of American meddling in Georgia, though couched in “hypothesis” and “ifs” a similar gesture? Maybe.
Milshtein continues:
Every word here is worth its weight in gold, and each is clear as crystal.
It is hard to accept that Putin, one of the most informed people on the planet, doesn’t know something. And who could strive for “escalation” and win percents over it? Only McCain, which some of our political figures and experts have already spoken out about –as a rule, those who welcome the coming cold war epoch with a joyous song.
Now Putin has joined with them. Taking into account past experience, Vladimir Vladimirovich today acts from the opposite side. It’s as if, in Ukraine four years ago, he had recruited the local people into the ranks of the “Orangists” and twice congratulated Yushchenko with a glorious victory. He accuses the republicans of initiating the war in the Caucasus, knowing full well, that the majority of Americans won’t believe him. Instead, they’ll clearly adopt it: this unpleasant Russian is against our John. That’s why many of those who waver between McCain and Obama, will now vote for the republican candidate. Simply because Putin alluded to him with disapproval.
The time at hand is completely different, after all. It is a very cold time, forcing Americans, with a sigh, to remember the late Ronald Reagan, with his firmness in leading the operation which today can be called “coercion into perestroika.” It is exactly McCain who is conducting his electoral campaign with Reagan’s name on his lips.
In a word, just a couple more of these interviews on American TV channels, and our cunning premier will celebrate a victory with the republicans. Why they are so dear to him is uncertain. But one wants to believe, that coming into power, John McCain won’t forget the efforts of his Russian partner in the cold war, and will reward him with some kind of secret decoration.
The impact of Putin’s “vote” will be revealed in this week’s Republican National Convention. After all the Republican heat on Russia is going up. Dick Cheney was dispatched to Georgia to send Russia a message. Cindy McCain was sent to do some refugee PR. Some are already suggesting that Republican VP candidate Sarah Palin has national security experience just because her state, Alaska, is close to Russia. So maybe Russia will be something the Republicans bang on this week. We shall see.
To think I was half joking when I wrote, “If McCain wins in November he should send Medvedev and Putin a box of chocolates in gratitude.” Maybe I was on to something . . .
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This conspiracy theory has actually occured to me. You see, Bush armed and encouraged the Georgians so they would attack, thus allowing Russia to come in, thus allowing McCain to get a boost in the polls.
They’re really, really sneaky.
Putin is just a pragmatic person.
In 2004 Bush was “better” because he was predictable whilst Kerry was “dark donkey”.
“- Выбирай – или я или кот!
- Хм…ну тебя то я давно знаю, а кота первый раз вижу”….
Sean. For better understanding of russkie you should look not in old archive only but old Soviet cartoons as well. Some of them very special. As they were not under same censorship as “regular” movies – some of them were packed with so many jokes and wisdom that they determined (in a way) the way russkie think and speak.
Have you seen the Soviet version of Vinni Pooh?
PS. McCain doesn’t need Putin’s support anymore. He got village girl from Alaska – the land of true Americans
Well, I don’t know whether it was intentional or not, but from the first time I read it I thought that Putin’s statement will be of more help to McCain than to Obama.
Let me also add that it was a very interesting post, Sean.
“was [Putin] somehow trapped in the simulacra of his own state media machine where the lines between reality and virtual are erased? An affirmative to the last question wouldn’t surprise me. I’ve witnessed this discursive circle in Soviet archival documents. … Putin & Co. are locked in their own rhetoric. There is no outside discourse with enough truth value to break the logic of their dominant discourse. Their belief, rhetoric, and power to control the parameters of acceptable speech reinforces themselves in a dizzying circle signification.”
A week ago I probably would have scoffed at such an explanation. Now, after Putin’s CNN interview and the Vesti/Fox affair, I don’t.
”If Putin was an American politician, what would he be? He is conservative, deeply religious, a patriot, and strong partisan for Russian traditions.”
I doubt he is genuinely religious, and think its just populism. Lots of Russians pay lip-service to the ROC and wear crosses but they arent religious at all really. If he attends church every sunday he can, then I’d say he is but if not its just a vote-getter.
Our last PM Bertie Ahern was quite popular for a few reasons, and one of those was that he conned the masses into believing he was an ordinary sort of guy, who liked attending soccer, Gaelic football and hurling matches – basically all the things that replaced Catholicism in Ireland as the main interest for most people. In fairness to him he does actually like sport, but that he used it as a vote-getter is beyond doubt.
“I doubt he is genuinely religious.”
I’m pretty sure he is. Supposedly he had a religious experience after the dacha fire, which is believable to me.
“I doubt he is genuinely religious.”
”I’m pretty sure he is. Supposedly he had a religious experience after the dacha fire, which is believable to me.”
Was that before or after the fire engine arrived?
Funnily enough if Bush said the same thing he’d be laughed out the door!
“Funnily enough if Bush said the same thing he’d be laughed out the door!”
Why do you say that? Bush does say pretty much the same thing, only instead of a fire it was alcohol.
”Funnily enough if Bush said the same thing he’d be laughed out the door!”
Why do you say that? Bush does say pretty much the same thing, only instead of a fire it was alcohol.”
He is laughed at cos of that one! Though if he really was an alcoholic and got off the sauce, then credit is due.
I’m just being cynical and skeptical, and doubt the genuinity of either of these events. I’m sure both events have helped get votes though.
Nor is such a belief unique to Russia. The real question is how and why this happens My short answer is that Putin & Co. are locked in their own rhetoric. There is no outside discourse with enough truth value to break the logic of their dominant discourse. Their belief, rhetoric, and power to control the parameters of acceptable speech reinforces themselves in a dizzying circle signification.
Bravo, Sean, I think this is one of the best passages from you I have read. However unpleasant free media might be it serves a huge purpose of telling leadership that they might be full of it. There is no guarantee that they would get the message, but without the free media telling them, they are guaranteed not to get a clue.
It is hard to accept that Putin, one of the most informed people on the planet, doesn’t know something.
At this point the article you quote becomes meaningless and irrelevant. Putin is not the most informed person. He can’t be because of the vicious circle above you describe.
I have seen people quite high up in the Soviet hierarchy. My first father in law was Gorby’s pal and lieutenant back in Stavropol and then in Moscow. My great uncle has spent most of his life spying in Germany. (He was later Putin’s supervisor at Leningrad University). Neither of them had any clue of what life in the West really was. When you combine ideological filters with filters set by controlled media, no matter how high up the ladder you are, you do not have the full picture.
There is a myth in the West that in the USSR the tops knew everything but lied to the peons.
Nor is such a belief unique to Russia.
That’s true enough. But such a belief does tend to be much stronger in countries where critical enquiry and self-reflection is banned, discouraged, or simply not carried out for any number of reasons. Russia does far better than say, the Middle East on this score, but falls some way behind the US and UK where unrelenting criticism of a sitting government appears to be a national hobby.
“He is laughed at cos of that one!”
I guess in Europe. In the States religiosity gets you respect and votes. That kind of thing is nigh obligatory for a politician.
”I guess in Europe. In the States religiosity gets you respect and votes. That kind of thing is nigh obligatory for a politician.”
I do appreciate that in fairness and perhaps I’m being bit glib about the whole thing. But I find it funny that self-professed religious people are often the worst sinners – in Bush’s case, well, we have Iraq – need I say more? – and in Putin’s case we have the re-levelling of Grozny and the murderous incompetence at Dubrokva.
Sometimes I wish these gobshites would just do the right thing, rather than bullshit on about doing the right thing and having ‘religious’ moments. There are plenty of people in their graves who’d still be alive if they had done so.
”Nor is such a belief unique to Russia. The real question is how and why this happens My short answer is that Putin & Co. are locked in their own rhetoric.”
Not just Putin & Co. Try the whole of Russia.
Not just Putin & Co. Try the whole of Russia.
You’ll find this interesting, Ger. We’ve just had an Irishman seconded into our department, and he arrived about a month ago having never been to Russia in his life before. After a month in the hotel without much to do, meaning a month of attempting to watch the news on TV, he said to me at a party on Friday night: “Are these lot for real? Do they really believe this shite?”
Watching Dayton VP nomination show…
Drunk Yeltsin on the stage doesn’t look that bad for me now.
”Not just Putin & Co. Try the whole of Russia.
You’ll find this interesting, Ger. We’ve just had an Irishman seconded into our department, and he arrived about a month ago having never been to Russia in his life before. After a month in the hotel without much to do, meaning a month of attempting to watch the news on TV, he said to me at a party on Friday night: “Are these lot for real? Do they really believe this shite?””
Tim.
Does your new Irishman in the department speak Russian? I’m also attempting to watch local news – and couldn’t believe in a single word they say (well I don’t know the language but…)
I have a wife who believes every word of it (she of the ”Chechens belong in mountains” attitude) and I dont want this passed on to the kids.
I’m lucky in that respect. My wife is pretty much apolitical, but when asked she is not a fan of Putin and is unimpressed by Russia’s political posturing. She considers the enormous confidence most Russians have to be largely misplaced.
Does your new Irishman in the department speak Russian?
Not a word. But then again, you don’t need to know Russian to get a general impression that the lead news story each night is flattering coverage of the President’s day. Somehow I think if he spoke fluent Russian his opinion would be reinforced rather than reversed.
It reminds me, although to a lesser extent, of the news in Oman. Without fail, the lead story each night was a description of the telegram the Sultan had sent to a head of state that day praising the relationship between the two countries, or something similar. It was a source of much amusement amongst the expats.
Very impressive performance just after one month! Averko is no match to this Irishman
Cyrill.
Somehow I’m not surprised at all that you are “простой советский паренек”
So all your grandpas and inlaws – party bosses or KGB operatives? Very interesting…
Very impressive performance just after one month!
Not really. Most visitors pretty much reach the same conclusion.
So all your grandpas and inlaws – party bosses or KGB operatives? Very interesting…
Not all, just a few party bosses on my first wife’s side. And a couple of KGB on mine. Did not do me much good when they started fighting and snitching.
Are the Republicans and United Russia ’soulmate’ parties? Yes. Consider choice of Sarah Palin and the gymnasts in the Duma as one more way their minds think alike.
Did Putin on CNN help McCain? Yes. He could only influence that sliver of voters that can be influenced. He had some 48% at ‘hello’ – no matter what he said. I’d estimate that more of those ’swingers’ would swing anti-Putin and pro-McCain after the appearance.
Are super-power leaders human? Can they have a change of heart after a major life event? e.g. Putin after fire at dacha. Yes. I submit case of Ronald Reagan after assassination attempt. After this event he began meeting with Suzanne Massie who, according to some, helped reshape policy toward USSR. Apparently she taught him to recognize that Russians are actually people and he should relate to them that way. Hawks in government hated this and felt he had gone soft, but he had the power/courage/dementia? to continue reaching out to Gorbochov with greater human understanding and better results.
How about this question: \”Is Sarah Palin a \’closet\’ United Russia devushka?\” What if McCain/Palin is the winning ticket, then McCain dies. She would win the Russian hearts immediately. It is just as Republicans secretly wish Putin was US head of state. She models the devuska program: have children when you\’re young. Ignore them, counting on the babashka and/or the state to care for them. In your 30s and 40s you can still be focusing on your make-up, fashions, figure and career – in that order, while the kids are shooting heroin on the streets. Whose to notice? You\’re looking good and maybe you’ve learned your job by then.
Putin would be with neither U.S. candidate.
Given your description of him, it is more likely that he would be visiting Ron Paul.
“Are the Republicans and United Russia ’soulmate’ parties? Yes.”
Obviously, some people are easily convinced. Me, otoh, less credulous. You’d have to explain how Saakashvilli fits into all this (remember, without him no escalation). And don’t forget the Jews.
Are the Republicans and United Russia ’soulmate’ parties? Yes.
Completely off the wall. UR has only one driving ideology – being in power. There is hardly and discourse and voting is quite… unanimous.
Republican party in the US consists of two drastically different wings – social conservatives of the like of Huckabee or Ashcroft on one hand and libertarian types like Giuliani.
In short, there is no party in the US that can be compared to UR.
As for Putin, one might argue that he is closer to Democrats: more government, more bread and circ.. err, more social services, price controls, etc. But why compare with US? How about socialists in Europe? Pre-Blair Labour sounds quite close with nationalization. But then again, Mussolini, anyone?
Putin is closest to Salazar.
Apparently the Dems saw through the Putin’s perfidy and summoned hurricane Gustav to dispel the Reps convention. Now what would the Reps do?
Stay tuned…
Very sophisticated stuff Sean. Congratulations. But perhaps you could not bring yourself to admit the ultimate political subtlety of Putin’s “clumsy” intervention? What he said was almost certainly true. Clinton is widely believed to have started war in the Balkans to distract attention from his activities with Monica and impeachment. Very few leaders have the intellectual calibre to combine political manoeuvres with truth. Putin is one of them. A close study of both Churchill and de Gaulle’s wartime speeches reveal that they were highly political but at the same time almost always truthful. That is why they were so convincing.
I believe that the Russians have the long term aim of destroying the West’s strongest card, our reputation for truthful and decent conduct. At the same time in recent years they are being pretty careful not to do anything too dishonest or indecent themselves. They have for instance conducted themselves with astonishing restraint in Georgia in contrast with the US after 9/11. They are perfectly well aware of the post Soviet image burden they carry. It is not for nothing that they employ US PR people. The recent Russian parroting of Western rhetoric from Kosovo and Serbia was comic … and eerie.
In addition there other reasons why the whole Russian governing class would favour McCain. First he is apparently the most likely to keep US and NATO forces bogged down in endless war with the Muslim world. Second it was the Democrats under Clinton who started or at any rate accelerated the post Soviet anti Russian drive and the escalating NATO push East. Do the Russians perhaps consider them a more dangerous enemy? Third they seem the least likely to resolve US financial problems and most likely to carry on pouring money down the drain on defence spending.
Clinton is widely believed to have started war in the Balkans to distract attention from his activities with Monica and impeachment.
Heh! I thought he launched missiles at a Sudanese factory to distract attention from Monicagate.
Путин обездвижил тигрицу, выбравшуюся из ловушки
Like Orpheus, Putin calms the beasts of the field.
Orpheus with his loot?
lyre
Speaking of Ireland, Ger, what is up with all these Irish horror movies? I saw one last night about mutated killer aquatic cow fetuses.
liar?
Lyre. An Ancient Greek stringed instrument. Lutes weren’t invented until much much later.
I love the comments section on this blog.
”Speaking of Ireland, Ger, what is up with all these Irish horror movies? I saw one last night about mutated killer aquatic cow fetuses.”
Do we even have a horror film industry…?:-) I heard we had our own Magic Space Pony film-makers alright, somewhere on the Beara Peninsula, but the rumours were ”untrue”.
If we do have a horror film industry, please let me know. In fact if you know of any Irish industry at all, full stop, that hasnt gone into liquidation I’d be glad to hear it. It’ll probably make the main evening news!
”I’m lucky in that respect. My wife is pretty much apolitical, but when asked she is not a fan of Putin and is unimpressed by Russia’s political posturing. She considers the enormous confidence most Russians have to be largely misplaced.”
She’s a rarity Tim! In fairness my own wife isnt totally nuts, but at the end of the day Russia is right and thats it for her. I suppose in many ways my attitude is a small-country one – with the exception of the IRA campaign (and they didnt represent most of us at all), Ireland is a pretty inoffensive little place and we struggle with the notion of levelling cities (especially our own!)and other brutalities.
“Ireland is a pretty inoffensive little place”
Leprechaun in the Hood isn’t accurate?
“Do we even have a horror film industry…?:-)”
Shrooms and Isolation at least. You do not fuck with those Irish mutant cows!
“Ireland is a pretty inoffensive little place”
That’s because by means of a secret (but brilliant) filtering strategy Ireland populated the rest of the world with the dregs of Irish society (misfits, murderers, rebels, outlaws) while keeping in the little green island those with a more inoffensive DNA. Clever.
“keeping in the little green island those with a more inoffensive DNA.”
Bono?
”Shrooms and Isolation at least. You do not fuck with those Irish mutant cows!”
I’ve heard of Shrooms alright, its from Paddy Breaithnach – were there mutant cows there?? If you want a good laugh, seek out ”Man About Dog” and ”I Went Down”, both from Paddy. There’s a sex scene in ”Man About Dog” where a Russian speaker calls her Irish lover ‘Oi, moya malinkaya loshadka’! The scene in the Traveller(gypsy) encampment is one of the funniest ever produced here. Well worth a look.
”That’s because by means of a secret (but brilliant) filtering strategy Ireland populated the rest of the world with the dregs of Irish society (misfits, murderers, rebels, outlaws) while keeping in the little green island those with a more inoffensive DNA. Clever.”
Ah, darn! We knew someone would discover our nefarious Irish purification scheme, which we told the world was ‘economic emigration’!
”“keeping in the little green island those with a more inoffensive DNA.”
Bono?”
Dont go there, man. Just dont go there:-)
Nah, Shrooms is about evil mushroom that turn you into a psycho killer with magic powers’ Isolation is about mutant cows. Actually it’s very well acted despite the absurdity of its premise.
A native of any country that inflicts Bono upon the world has no business decrying the wrongdoing of others.
”A native of any country that inflicts Bono upon the world has no business decrying the wrongdoing of others.”
That is true, unfortunately. He gets a really hard time here.
Hope you enjoyed those Irish horrors anyway! Isolation sounds like a rip-off of Black Sheep, an NZ horror out 2 years ago about, well…killer sheep. Wasnt too bad actually.
Tired of being regularly abused by horny teenagers and lonely New Zealand farmers, the sheep decide to wreak a terrible, not so New Zealander friendly revenge?
Tim: But such a belief does tend to be much stronger in countries where critical enquiry and self-reflection is banned, discouraged, or simply not carried out for any number of reasons. Russia does far better than say, the Middle East on this score, but falls some way behind the US and UK where unrelenting criticism of a sitting government appears to be a national hobby.
It’s not just criticism of the government among the media and in the public. It is the relative lack of a mentality of questioning authority (though I think we in the US call it “inquiry” and not “enquiry”) or discussing things in order to introduce competing ideas and have the better ones implemented (we can call this absence the “ya nachal’nik, ty durak / ty nachal’nik, ya durak” principle).
Look at the educational system. Last time I checked, “debate club” wasn’t something you would find in many Russian schools, and typically arguing with the teacher or the textbook will get you a bad grade, even if you do it politely and with logic on your side.
Robert: I believe that the Russians have the long term aim of destroying the West’s strongest card, our reputation for truthful and decent conduct.
This is actually one of the more important stars (along with the 1000+% increase in the nominal price of Texas tea) that has aligned for Putin – the West (certainly the US) has been busily destroying its own credibility over the past few years, with little need for any Russian action on this front. VVP has skillfully jumped on the bandwagon by tapping into the resentment of people worldwide for the US by tweaking the eagle’s beak when it suits him.
At the same time in recent years they are being pretty careful not to do anything too dishonest or indecent themselves.
Now this is just comical. Robert, do you ever get the chance to watch the Russian news? Do you see how the government explains/justifies its actions to its own people using manifest falsehoods? Seems rather indecent to me, but I guess it’s all relative – or perhaps those evil genius “US PR people” are responsible for the indecent part. They must somehow be able to simultaneously help the US destroy its own credibility while helping Russia be pure and decent, or perhaps its not the same PR people – can you elaborate? Maybe the US stopped paying its PR people and they’ve decamped for Russia to create a “liberal empire” of decency on TV?
Excuse me for getting carried away, but your suggestion that Russia has been a beacon of truth and restraint in its conduct w/r/t Georgia is simply laughable.
In fact if you know of any Irish industry at all, full stop, that hasnt gone into liquidation…
Is this when one of your companies says: sod it, let’s make beer or whisky instead?
You guys are prattling on about Georgia and the media when there are important subjects like Bono and New Zealand horror movie to discuss? Jesus Christ.
”Tired of being regularly abused by horny teenagers and lonely New Zealand farmers, the sheep decide to wreak a terrible, not so New Zealander friendly revenge?”
Chris Doss trolls on for the deceit of the not so New Zealand Friendlies. Include bogus comments about my grammer. New Zealand sheep arent so Russia Friendly and are hypocritically warped lambs.
”Look at the educational system. Last time I checked, “debate club” wasn’t something you would find in many Russian schools, and typically arguing with the teacher or the textbook will get you a bad grade, even if you do it politely and with logic on your side.”
Lyndon/Chris/Everyone,
can anyone tell me why this is the case? Is it that at school level this vein fo thinking leads to grown ups swallowing the nonsense that passes for news? I’m just baffled by this attitude.
“can anyone tell me why this is the case?”
Isn’t it the norm in schools outside the American tradition, and until recently there too? The Brits supposedly have that debating thing, but it’s not the same as “questioning authority,” the slogan every (white) kid in my high school was obsessed with.
“”Look at the educational system. Last time I checked, “debate club” wasn’t something you would find in many Russian schools, and typically arguing with the teacher or the textbook will get you a bad grade,”
Not only was this the case when I was in high school, this was the case when I was an undergrad and a grad student.
”In fact if you know of any Irish industry at all, full stop, that hasnt gone into liquidation…
Is this when one of your companies says: sod it, let’s make beer or whisky instead?”
Its heading that way!! Ireland is falling to bits. I’m seriously thinking of bailing back to Moscow. Everything costs a fortune here and no-one has any money. By the way Tim how’s the Mick getting on? Where’s he from?
”You guys are prattling on about Georgia and the media when there are important subjects like Bono and New Zealand horror movie to discuss? Jesus Christ.”
There’s another NZ horror (or rather thriller) you might seek out – its called ‘Out of The Blue’, a true story (genuine, happened about ten years ago) about a guy who went nuts on the South Island and basically hunted and shot a load of locals in his village. No gore but scary stuff. My favourite horror from that end of the world has to be Wolf Creek – its Aussie – its genuinely scary, in a ‘Picnic at Hanging Rock’ sort of style. Am terrified of horrors and cannot bear any type of gore at all, but Wolf Creek was well worth the discomfort. Funny how cheap horrors are usually the scariest.
“My favourite horror from that end of the world has to be Wolf Creek”
I saw this movie the other day! I was bummed wheh the main girl got shot.
”Isn’t it the norm in schools outside the American tradition, and until recently there too? The Brits supposedly have that debating thing, but it’s not the same as “questioning authority,” the slogan every (white) kid in my high school was obsessed with.”
Ireland doesnt have a continuous assesment system – in secondary (high school) all exams(two major ones, at age 15 and 17) worth anything are examined externally so you can argue with your teacher till Kingdom Come, and quite literally it will be all academic, to use a football phrase. In abstract subjects like history you are given essay titles and you can make arguments with your evidence. For example I remember from my own history paper in 1992(!) the question:
”Discuss the Struggle for Power in the USSR (1921-1933?)” In answering you have to of course present facts but if it suits you you could argue for example that Stalin was correct to bump off everyone to get the ‘house in order’. However, in the sciences, engineering, foreign languages etc the answers are very concise wih no scope for opinion at all.
Irish has to be the funniest though. We cant even use it properly at 17 and yet have to write critical essays in Irish about Irish language literature. Talk about a waste of time, and its killing the language.
“In abstract subjects like history you are given essay titles and you can make arguments with your evidence.”
I went in and out of AP (advanced) and “normal” classes throughout high school, largely because I was an absolutely shit student except when it came to writing. In fact, I barely graduated. The AP classes were pretty good, but the rest were mostly “fill in this multiple choice test.”
”My favourite horror from that end of the world has to be Wolf Creek”
I saw this movie the other day! I was bummed wheh the main girl got shot. ”
It was heartbreaking but in keeping with the tone. It was very Russian in style – no happy ending there at all. She was so close to getting away! The bad guy was pure genius though. The scene at the campfire, when the kids are smirking at him, thinking he hasnt a clue, but he smiles wryly, is totally creepy. And the bit where the dark-haired girl finds the Lonely Planet books and video cameras is freaky too. I had to walk a kilometer in the dark down an Irish country lane to meet my mate at the pub after watching it and I was almost shitting myself.
Saw Midnight Express the other nite for the 2oth time. Looked it up on Wiki. Seemingly most of it is a total fraud. He got a few hidings but was never raped or tortured.
”In abstract subjects like history you are given essay titles and you can make arguments with your evidence.”
I went in and out of AP (advanced) and “normal” classes throughout high school, largely because I was an absolutely shit student except when it came to writing. In fact, I barely graduated. The AP classes were pretty good, but the rest were mostly “fill in this multiple choice test.””
I agree totally with the essay style – its not right that scientists and mathematicians get everything their way. In fairness the Irish system, though brutal in many ways, does give all talents a chance. We have no multiple choice though, at any level, ever. The Irish make you write till your hand breaks.
By the way Tim how’s the Mick getting on? Where’s he from?
He’s Dublin born, to Belgian parents. A Shell engineer who’s been seconded to Sakhalin for a year. He’s doing okay, a good lad. A bit older than me, hence a bit more sensible. Not sensible enough to have not volunteered for a month offshore though!
Am terrified of horrors and cannot bear any type of gore at all, but Wolf Creek was well worth the discomfort. Funny how cheap horrors are usually the scariest.
I think that was loosely based on the Peter Falconio case.
Descent was one of the best low-budget horror flicks I’ve seen, knee deep in blood almost from the beginning.
The only film that has actually scared me in my adult life was Blaire Witch Project.
I was unable to watch the end of the remake of Freaks, but out of revulsion, not fear.
BS if anybody is a fan of classic forror films, Romero’s 1969 Night of the Living Dead is on youtube in its entirety: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhgVHTVi_h4
Beware Irishman! Zombies ahead!
The only film that has actually scared me in my adult life was Blaire Witch Project.
I was unable to watch the end of the remake of Freaks, but out of revulsion, not fear.
BS if anybody is a fan of classic forror films, Romero’s 1969 Night of the Living Dead is on youtube in its entirety. I tried linking to it but the spam filter won’t let me.
Beware Irishman! Zombies ahead!
What conclusion, Tim?
That TV is broadcasting BS?
That stupid Russians believe in their stupid TV broadcasting?
As I said – very impressive…
I’m very much doubt she would. I haven’t heard such speeches as hers for 30 years…
What conclusion, Tim?
I’ve already told you:
[A] general impression that the lead news story each night is flattering coverage of the President’s day.
As I said – very impressive…
And as I’ve already told you: no it isn’t. Most visitors reach pretty much the same conclusion.
The only film that has actually scared me in my adult life was Blaire Witch Project.
A great film, with the most frightening final scene in cinema history.
““My favourite horror from that end of the world has to be Wolf Creek”
I saw this movie the other day! I was bummed wheh the main girl got shot.”
Oh, great! Thanks, Chris. If I ever find out about a thriller/spooky movie you want to see, I’ll make sure to SPOIL it for you.
Tim.
have you read what you said?
“he said to me at a party on Friday night: “Are these lot for real? Do they really believe this shite?””
These are not conclusions. These are QUESTIONS? But if he came to the conclusion – with minus zero knowledge of Russians and their language – that they believe…wow! Averko отдыхает
“Oh, great! Thanks, Chris. If I ever find out about a thriller/spooky movie you want to see, I’ll make sure to SPOIL it for you.”
I wouldn’t want you to be scared, Kolya!
You know Alien? In the end, the alien gets flushed into space, and Ripley and the cat live.
About TV in the most free country
Ombudsman: National TVs Under Government’s Firm Control
Civil Georgia, Tbilisi / 4 Jul.’08 / 21:06
Georgia has been left without an independent nationwide television station, as a result of the authorities’ “purposeful efforts,” Sozar Subari, the Georgian public defender, said on July 4.
He was speaking at a conference in Batumi, dedicated to implementation of Georgia’s European Neighborhood Policy action plan.
“The Georgian government boasts of one of the most liberal laws [on media and freedom of speech],” Subari said in his address. “But at the same time there is an extremely grave situation in this field [of freedom of media], which is getting closer and closer to the situation similar to one that once was during the Soviet times.”
“As a result of the authorities’ purposeful efforts there actually is no independent television station in the country, except Kavkasia TV, which covers only Tbilisi,” Subari continued. “The other television stations are operating under the strictest censorship of the authorities. News coverage by those television stations is carried out upon dictation and orders of state officials.”
He also said that some businesses advertising on Kavkasia TV were being pressured by the authorities to withdraw their ads from the station.
“Against the background of this situation, a liberal law remains only as a facade, behind which freedom of speech is being stifled,” Subari added.
Hey, I wonder what would happen if instead of three kids out in the woods shooting a documentary, it was Mike Averko.
“Legends say that long ago a Russophobic pundit lived in these woods, writing op-eds and non fact based analysis in a dank and dark wooden shack. According to some, his ghost still haunts these tree-enshrouded paths, still maintaining the parallel biases from beyond the grave.”
Fast forward. Averko is lost in the woods.
“I want to say I’m very sorry to Mike’s mom. And Josh’s moom. And my mom. I thought I could handle it, but I couldn’t. I was so naive.” (Averko gasps, shudders, and glances with wild eyes to one side.) “There’s something out there in the woods. It, it, I think it’s Ethan Burger. And we’re all going to die here.”
”I think that was loosely based on the Peter Falconio case.
Descent was one of the best low-budget horror flicks I’ve seen, knee deep in blood almost from the beginning.”
I think it was, or at least it was a play on the frequent enough disappearances in the Outback. When I flew home from NZ, via Sydney from Singapore, the plane trip splits the Aussie continent from South to North through the desert, and as usual I spent the whole flight looking at the map showing where the plane is, and it struck me, wow, this place is (a) huge and (b) largely uninhabited. Quite apart from loonies, get lost or in car trouble there and death will find you very quickly. Creepy. There’s a brilliant Aussie dramatisation of the Falconio case with Bryan Brown and an equally brilliant young Brit actress who did her time in above all places Coronation Street. Again, Outback = scary.
”The only film that has actually scared me in my adult life was Blaire Witch Project.
A great film, with the most frightening final scene in cinema history.”
I dunno if you’re taking the piss, but if you arent, I do agree. I nearly shit myself at the end of that one. I thought it was one of the cleverest films ever made, though most people wrote it off as shite. The dawning realisation that they are lost and fucked is freaky as well. I hate forests.
”BS if anybody is a fan of classic forror films, Romero’s 1969 Night of the Living Dead is on youtube in its entirety. I tried linking to it but the spam filter won’t let me.
Beware Irishman! Zombies ahead!”
I think Dawn is on there too Chris. I thought all three films were terrific, but Dawn did something to my head and I cant watch it since. The music, the cheapness, the utter bleakness and of course the gore. I’ve read since that at the time it was the one the most successful horror films ever -made for nothing and made a fortune. When the helicopter guy turns blue and tears down the barrier to the rest of them….for me the scariest, most nightmarish scene ever. Brought myself to watch Land of the Dead recently and thought that was a disgrace of a film. Night is an all-time great though – absolutely terrific, very clever movie.
”These are not conclusions. These are QUESTIONS? But if he came to the conclusion – with minus zero knowledge of Russians and their language – that they believe…wow! Averko отдыхает ”
ivanov, in western countries tv channels generally do not show leaders holding court. It would be laughed at, hence the Mick’s reaction. Its not even about censorship -its just SHITE TV!:-)
“Outback = scary.”
What about Outback + Zombies?
Ivanov, I don’t think anybody here falls for the “Georgia is a young democracy” bullshit.
”Fast forward. Averko is lost in the woods.
“I want to say I’m very sorry to Mike’s mom. And Josh’s moom. And my mom. I thought I could handle it, but I couldn’t. I was so naive.” (Averko gasps, shudders, and glances with wild eyes to one side.) “There’s something out there in the woods. It, it, I think it’s Ethan Burger. And we’re all going to die here.””
Maybe he needs the ROC Holy Man Father Johnson to save him from EB??
Funny no sign of MAA lately. And come to think of it, I visited SL the other day and there hasnt been a post from Andy for ages.
“Funny no sign of MAA lately.”
His face was turned to the wall.
”“Outback = scary.”
What about Outback + Zombies?”
Dont even go there. My ultimate nightmare. Or worse, a shopping mall in the Outback with zombies and those creepy Pennsylvanian forests thrown in. And mad SWAT teams. BRRRRR.
”“Funny no sign of MAA lately.”
His face was turned to the wall.”
There is no denying the utter freakiness of that scene. Is there any definitive version of what happened? Why was the guys face to the wall?
And chainsaws.
“There is no denying the utter freakiness of that scene. Is there any definitive version of what happened? Why was the guys face to the wall?”
See the movie again. It’s foreshadowed earlier.
“To think I was half joking when I wrote, “If McCain wins in November he should send Medvedev and Putin a box of chocolates in gratitude.” Maybe I was on to something . . .\”
Too much conspiracy here – why is it that there is always some neo-con controlling your world? Putin laid the bait, got the response he wanted, and took what he came for. It wasn\’t McCain\’s fault, or FOX news gearing up for a ratings race. The simplest reason suffices – Putin pulled his hand out from Medvedev\’s ass and made his move. Now he\’s gonna work hard to keep what he killed for (with the help of useful idiots everywhere).
Nothing changes but the characters…
”There is no denying the utter freakiness of that scene. Is there any definitive version of what happened? Why was the guys face to the wall?”
See the movie again. It’s foreshadowed earlier.”
I’m blind as a bat and miss stuff all the time. What happened??!!:-)
What counts as a simplest reason depends on the frame of mind of the observer.
“I’m blind as a bat and miss stuff all the time. What happened??!!:-)”
Sorry Kolya.
Previously, a townsperson told the doomed kids a story about the guy who lived in the woods who was killing children back in the 50s. He murdered them in pairs in the cellar, but said he couldn’t stand the eyes on him. So he made one stand in the corner while he killed the other.
Exactly the kind of thing a not so Russia friendly pundit would do, I might add.
”What counts as a simplest reason depends on the frame of mind of the observer.”
The only conclusion I could draw was that he had just one nuts and turned to face the wall in a kind of freaked-out trance. Then looks around for a second. I just cannot figure out what did happened though really.
I can tell you my frame of mind was ”totally shitting bricks”.
I was refering to the comment by that Shane person.
”Previously, a townsperson told the doomed kids a story about the guy who lived in the woods who was killing children back in the 50s. He murdered them in pairs in the cellar, but said he couldn’t stand the eyes on him. So he made one stand in the corner while he killed the other.”
Chris I’m sorry for having dragged it out, but thanks for telling me. I had forgotten that detail totally, and in fairness its well observed by you.
And its freakier than I’d imagined actually. BRRR.
These are not conclusions.
I never said they were. For the third time, the conclusion reached is:
[A] general impression that the lead news story each night is flattering coverage of the President’s day.
That is the conclusion reached.
Right. He turned Mike to the wall while he was killing Heather.
and it struck me, wow, this place is (a) huge and (b) largely uninhabited.
You’ve not flown from Moscow to Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk.
I dunno if you’re taking the piss, but if you arent, I do agree
I’m not: I genuinely thought that scene, just before the camera falls to the ground, brought the film to a terrifying conclusion.
”I dunno if you’re taking the piss, but if you arent, I do agree
I’m not: I genuinely thought that scene, just before the camera falls to the ground, brought the film to a terrifying conclusion.”
I’ve been annoying Chris about it. Its a brilliant piece of work – it has to be said.
The only conclusion I could draw was that he had just one nuts and turned to face the wall in a kind of freaked-out trance.
For me, it brought home the incredible fear that the witch induced to anyone who encountered her: here we have a grown man, seemingly unharmed (teeth and tongue notwithstanding) obediently stood in a corner awaiting his death. I connected it with the story told earlier, which made me realise the relevance of him standing in the corner.
True Chris – Perhaps a more skeptical frame of mind in defense of simple liberty for Russians?
I came by Sean’s blog looking for his reaction to the murder of Magomed Yevloyev, an anti-Kremlin blogger who was executed and dumped in the street. Reuters reports:
“A preliminary investigation is being carried out into the incident as a result of which M.Yevloyev was killed,” said Vladimir Markin, a spokesman for the investigations unit of the Prosecutor General’s Office in Moscow.
Markin said police had tried to bring Yevloyev in for questioning but that an incident occurred in which he received a gunshot wound that led to his death.
Interfax news agency cited an unnamed law enforcement source as saying Yevloyev was shot by accident and said prosecutors had opened a criminal case for causing the death by carelessness.”
What frame of mind do you think the Kremlin thugs who kidnapped Magomed was? It seems a nuanced frame that can explain the murdering of minds…
I’ve been too busy today to write something about Magomed. I think the Kommersant article (Russian only, unfortunately) gives an interesting account of events.
My first impression is that he was executed. I don’t buy that he tried to grab a weapon from one of the police and he was accidentally shot. But I still need to read more on it.
Hopefully I can address it tomorrow. Though I can’t promise anything.
Oh lordy lordy.
Ger, maybe Averko has been made into a zombie and is wandering around the Outback looking for you in a shopping mall.
“My first impression is that he was executed.”
Sean.
When you write about Yevloyev, could you answer some question?
Like what would US policemen do if
“на помощь к господину Евлоеву, расталкивая аэропортовскую охрану и выламывая стеклянные двери, бросились родственники и друзья… При этом милицейский кортеж поехал не к парадным воротам, которые снаружи уже заблокировали сторонники оппозиции, а по запасному маршруту.”
“они сумели догнать милицейскую колонну и тараном отсечь от нее две “Волги”. Но господина Евлоева в них не оказалось. Оппозиционеры выволокли из машин милиционеров, избили их и отобрали табельное оружие и удостоверения. ”
“”Мы уже собирались штурмом брать ГУВД,— вспоминает господин Хазбиев,”
PS. The more and the sooner such оппозиционеров are “isolated” – the more people’s lives will be saved (nothing personal – just my personal opinion). BTW the group that killed children in Beslan came from Ingushetia.
He is not fucking “blogger”. He is terrorist (if we use PATRIOT Act definitions).
And before dumping you BS here, please check the facts. He was brought to hospital BY “executers”.
I think you’re confusing your Magomeds, Ivanov. This guy is different from the mujaheed of the same name.
Like what would US policemen do if..
That’s easy – American cops would park a bullet in his brain-pan and drop him on the side of the road.
Oooh, I get it … just like the Russian cops did! Golly, you’re so smart and wordly.
No, Chris, I’M NOT CONFUSING TARGETS…
Smart joke, Shedd.
But usually they shit their pants or shoot anyone around with all armo they have or both
“American cops would park a bullet in his brain-pan and drop him on the side of the road.”
Unless I missed something in the article, and assuming it is accurate, he wasn’t dropped by the side of the road but taken to the hospital in the cop shop.
I think it’s telling how people of various parallel biases
are reacting to this Magomed shooting with so little information to go on either way.
”I think it’s telling how people of various parallel biases are reacting to this Magomed shooting with so little information to go on either way.”
I saw the article in yesterdays Moscow Times but havent seen anything about it since. In fairness if he went to restrain someone who had a gun pointing at him then it could easily end in tears. But the trigger would surely have to have been pulled, in any case…?
“But the trigger would surely have to have been pulled, in any case…?”
I was thinking that both versions of the event might be true. Maybe this Magomed guy believed that he was going to be shot, so he tried to wrestle away the guy’s gun. Maybe he was wrong and overreacted; maybe he was right and would have been shot anyway. Who knows?
”I connected it with the story told earlier, which made me realise the relevance of him standing in the corner.”
I didnt cop it at all. I think I was so frightened at that point all my thoughts had gone out the window. Thanks again lads for the clarification.
”Ger, maybe Averko has been made into a zombie and is wandering around the Outback looking for you in a shopping mall.”
Adit it Ger — you thought he just had to take a leak really bad.
“Where is Andy though? No action at SL at all for a while now.”
That’s easy. He went into the woods to make a documentary with Averko. Averko had his face turned to the wall, and then BLAMMO! a wave of ectoplasmic Russophobic punditry did its evil work on the other guy.
Amazing how Russian police have apparently never heard of handcuffs. You would have to believe that police allow perps to struggle and fight all the way to the police station, even to the point of accidently shooting themselves in a struggle. How does the weapon even become unholstered in this scenario?
I take the “official” Russian police story on this to be entirely bullshit, police trying to cover their ass after they realized they fucked-up. There are so many ways to subdue victims that do not involve the officer’s firearm. Either the police were completely incompetent to the point of criminal negligence, or they are lying.
”Adit it Ger — you thought he just had to take a leak really bad.”
Sadly its not true. I’m just a total pussy. It is the source of much mirth among my friends. Like I said I saw Dawn when I was very young and it fucked up my head a bit. And I absolutely cannot bear gore at all – I wont eat for a day after seeing something too gory.
”That’s easy. He went into the woods to make a documentary with Averko. Averko had his face turned to the wall, and then BLAMMO! a wave of ectoplasmic Russophobic punditry did its evil work on the other guy.”
Have you been shooting handgun, Irishman?
BTW do you know why guards in the prisons don’t have guns?
Well, the whole story is just clear indication that there is no “order” in Ingushetia. But this doesn’t change my opinion about Yevloyev.
Bin Laden didn’t shoot a single US citizen by himself. He was “just expressing his opinions”.
Bin Laden didn’t shoot a single US citizen by himself. He was “just expressing his opinions”.
What’s your point? That Yevloyev killed 3,000 Russians in a staged attack in Moscow? Or that the police were justified in shooting this guy, so it doesn’t matter?
Last time I checked, Bin Laden was not a US citizen and was not subject to being arrested by our police. In the many cases where suspected terrorists have been arrested in the US, they were nearly always apprehended by competent police and put on trial.
You want to keep this comparison going, by all means continue. But you’re just going to look more and more foolish by sustaining this ill-suited comparison.
By the way, to the original point of this article – Putin is too fiscally conservative to be a Republican. To be a card-carrying member of the GOP, you have to lower taxes on the rich and pump up federal spending, spending the US into deeper and deeper deficits.
That’s the way every Republican since Ronald Reagan has done it.
This just in … startling video of how Yevloyev was shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJEQtANNGFo
“How does the weapon even become unholstered in this scenario?”
I think the theory is that the police accidentally shot him, not that he shot himself.
They’re not Russian cops by the way; they’re Ingush.
For the record.
1. It was not Russian police. It was Ingush “police”.
2. Both Yevloyev and Bin Laden don’t shoot – just talk. But both are terrorists nevertheless.
PS. Did someone notice that Yevloyev came from Moscow on same plane as “president” Zyazikov? Then shit happened.
I have not followed this closely (at least not yet), but if in the US the cops detain someone and put him on a police vehicle and then this person ends up dead with a bullet in his head the vast majority of citizens would assume that this man was murdered by the police and they would be extremely skeptical of anything the police say in their explanations.
What is the Russian media saying? Imagine the media coverage in the US if the person killed was an activist blogger well known among the more militant Mexican-American community, was flying in the same plane as the Texas governor (of whom he was very critical), and was detained after landing.
I dunno Kolya. You must know different Americans than I.
Anyway, what Americans would or would not think has no bearing at what actually happened. I think it likely he was murdered, but I do not know.
Kolya, you forgot one small detail.
If US cops were attacked by “таран”, US public would ask why cops didn’t shoot them all right on airfield.
PS. This doesn’t mean that I’m “happy” with performance of authorities in Ingushetia.
I agree with Kolya on this one, not sure what the Americans are you talk to Chris. Does anyone trust the police 100% since that Rodney King business? Entire police department policies and equipment have been reshaped in the years since that happened, for precisely that reason.
As to this “Ingush” vs. “Russian” police – give me a friggin’ break. I was not referring to ethnicity nor local government – last time I checked Ingushetia was still part of Russia and police in that region are part of the Russian government overall. Are we going to be making similar distinctions now with American police and the various states, counties, and cities the represent? I doubt it.
The theory that I have read on ITAR was that he was accidently shot in the head in a struggle for the police officers weapon, which would suggest that he either tried to unholster the weapon himself … or it was unholstered and already pointed at him. Either scenario is damning for the police competence if true, or alternatively is a lie to cover their ass.
By the way, in support of my point regarding the word “Russian” .. the Russian Prosecutor General’s spokesperson in Moscow, Vladimir Markin, has been addressing the media regarding an investigation into the events.
And yes, I am familiar with Yevloyev’s pissing match with Murat Zyazikov.
Regarding ivanov’s absolutely brilliant comments and stunning insight: Wow, again you show how clever and worldly you are. American police are so very well-known for shooting terrorists on-site. They never, ever do things like arrest them and put them on trial.
Reference: Timothy McVeigh, 2006 Sears Tower plot, 2007 JFK Airport plot, et al.
As long as the source of your knowledge continues to be the Lethal Weapon and Die Hard movies, you’ll continue to make such accurate and intelligent observations. Keep up the good work.
I’m late to this party, but feel compelled to respond.
To be a Republican, you have to be some kind of ideologue. Same with the Democrats. UR is almost defined by its lack of ideology. Plus, in effect, platforms aside, there is not a huge gulf between the two parties. It’s a very weird and narrow set a of choices we have over here. We don’t even fit comfortably into them, so I wouldn’t expect non-Americans to. I think that for every thing I can find to associate Putin with the Republicans, I can find a reason he’d never be one. Yes, he’s a nationalist. Er, but most leaders of nations are to varying degrees. Conservative, but not exactly hell bent on legislating extremely conservative values. Deeply religious? Well, so was St. Francis of Assisi. Likes to flex some military muscle, but only in the neighborhood. I can’t see a GOPer imprisoning Khodorkovsky like that. In fact, a lot of free-marketers hate Putin’s State meddling about in business. A classic jab against Democrats. He said the demise of the Soviet Union was a tragedy. Most Republicans I know think the man’s some kind of satanic evil. Of course, it’s almost impossible to imagine him a Democrat. He’s not too occupied with civil liberties, plus, he’s not a push over. Sure the left in Russia is no fan of his, but the left in Russia is hardly comparable to the left in the US. The economy in Russia improved during his tenure. That hasn’t been the case with Republicans in the US.
In the past he openly courted the GOP: after the Clinton years, they were hoping a Republican US President would be better for Russia. Maybe it was? But I’ve read their frustration has grown with the GOP too. It now seems it makes no difference the party of the US President: whoever it is will oppose a powerful Russia, and dig in their heels to protect American hegemony.
I don’t think Putin is a closet Republican. I think he is an open Putinist. Either you are cooperative with him or you aren’t. I don’t see either McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden being very cooperative at this point.
Also, I think the entire conversation of “is Putin be a Republican?” kind of speaks to the frustration many in Russia have with America trying to create a Russia in our own image. He probably is when it is convenient. Mostly, he seems to be a pragmatist with a healthy dose of authoritarian and exhibitionist thrown in. He’s his own cat.
BTW, is there any actual video of him shooting that kitty? I’ve seen a lot of before and after pictures, but nothing showing him actually shooting the cat. My own cat, aware that I am a fan, is not happy about this. I’m trying to reassure her it is pure theater.
“I agree with Kolya on this one, not sure what the Americans are you talk to Chris. Does anyone trust the police 100% since that Rodney King business?”
I went to grad school with a lot of right-wingers who I am pretty sure would have made lots of excuses if something comparable had happened.
Please don’t tell me you think Russians trust their police.
The Ingush thing does matter, because people talk about the “Russian police” or whatever as if they were a unitary whole. The Ingush cops are not the Moscow police. The Alabama cops are not the New York police.
“Does anyone trust the police 100% since that Rodney King business?”
Have you ever read a Dean Koontz novel?
Most American police departments have interior and exterior video cameras installed specifically to protect police departments from accusations by suspects (or if you prefer, to catch bad cops in the act of pummeling perps).
Additionally, most larger city and state police departments in the US require candidates to have a university education, possibly combined with police academy training on top of that. For example, my brother has two Bachelor’s degrees (Chemistry and Russian) from the University of Texas and is working on a Master’s degree in Criminal Justice.
He was set to enter a program with his department to go to Russia in the next year, sort of a cross-cultural program to work with Russian police officers for several weeks (you know, ivanov, exactly like those movies “Red Heat” or “The Jackal”). I suspect such programs are becoming less likely given the current political climate.
This reminds me of an older point, regarding the likelihood of catching contract killers that was raised after the Politkovskaya murder. I had promised (might have been to CM) to ask my brother what methods police use and how likely it is to find murderers in such cases. His answer, as I recall: if the perpetrators were truly professional, it is almost impossible to catch them, despite what forensic information or video might be available. In order to make that information useful, it almost always requires someone to rat out the perps, and provide testimony. Among professionals, this is extremely unlikely. He said sometimes you might get lucky, catch a perfect image of a well-known criminal’s face on video or fingerprint, but again, unlikely with professionals.
“I had promised (might have been to CM) to ask my brother what methods police use and how likely it is to find murderers in such cases.”
Yes, it was. Thank you! That was pretty much the answer I had expected, but I’m glad to hear it confirmed.
“Additionally, most larger city and state police departments in the US require candidates to have a university education”
Really? Is this new?
“We can discount Russia and the PMR anyway, cos Mike has definitely not been there!”
Maybe the witch was in the PMR.
“Really? Is this new?
I can say for sure that this was the case since at least 1996 or so, when my brother entered the work force as a police officer. Every police department he applied to required at least a bachelor’s degree for a candidate to be considered, along with some testing and additional training. Even with that, he didn’t get an offer from the Las Vegas police department, for example.
My impression is with older east-coast police departments, many long-time unionized police aren’t required to have much in the way of education. However, as far as I know, newer officers almost everywhere are expected to have some education prior to joining the force. Some small town police departments don’t require it in this region of the country, but you still have to sit for a test and likely won’t do well without some prior police training. You will certainly have a difficult time advancing without an education.
Despite Mike’s education and military credentials (he served in the US Army for several years, “graduated” top of his class from Basic, worked summers in the Army reserve as a drill sergeant, studied Russian at DLI in Monterey) he was unable to get a job with either the FBI, ATF, or CIA (CIA liked his Russian, but he didn’t have enough foreign travel as an adult; he couldn’t pass one of ATF’s visual acuity/firing range tests).
Yeah, I always thought law enforcement is where people who couldn’t do better things in life end up, but my brother has done an admirable job of correcting my impression (despite my northern liberal credentials). They really require a big commitment from officers these days – you should have seen all the work my brother put into his sergeants exam.
That being said, there is no way in hell that a suspect or perp wouldn’t be hand-cuffed with his hands behind his back, making any struggle or attempt to sieze an officer’s firearm completely impossible (especially for a chubby older guy like Yevloyev, who is unlikely to be a contortionist able to slide handcuffs under his feet to bring his hands in front). If an officer were unable to control a hand-cuffed suspect here in the US, you can be sure that choke-holds, clubs, tasers, or pepper spray (or all of the above) would be used prior to drawing a firearm.
Please don’t tell me you think Russians trust their police.
Other than ivanov’s sort of blinding trust in all official police or government statements, no. Most Russians that I know seem to consider the police as just another form of criminal organization.
Despite my brother being a police officer, I can’t say I am 100% trusting of American pigs err… police either. (Old habits die hard.) In fact, I would say that my conversations with Mike have sharpened my perceptions of what police should and should not do. I would add – it is wise to follow Chris Rock’s advice on how not to get your assed kicked by the police.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
I remember several years ago, a friend of mine in Ryazan had something stolen, and I naively mentioned going to the police. She proceeded to tell me all the trouble that would cause, and cited a prior example where they went to the police regarding some small crime (stolen cell phone, I believe), and were themselves questioned about how they managed to afford a cell phone on a teacher’s salary, and so on.
“However, as far as I know, newer officers almost everywhere are expected to have some education prior to joining the force.”
Dennis Lehaye has lied to me.
Shedd.
Thanks for explaining me the difference between Russian Russian and Russian Ingush cops
Also very interesting to learn what your brother is learning. He is still a quarter century behind me but his opinion about catching criminals caught my attention…LOL.
Thanks for explaining me the difference between Russian Russian and Russian Ingush cops
My only point is, they all work for the Russian government at some level. This is perfectly well known, and in this context entirely nit-picky for anyone to point out.
Chris, I don’t think you made a valid point regarding why this matters in the slightest. Is the Russian Prosecutor General’s office going to let it slide, because Ingush police are ignorant hillbilly cops? Is it less incompetence or not murder if this happens in Moscow vs. Ingushetia (or Los Angeles vs. Mobile?).
This is beyond the geography of Ingushetia being inside Russia. Unless you have a specific point to make in this regard, the federal nationality vs. regional ethnic nationality game really serves no purpose in this discussion.
I really have no idea what ivanov’s point was in that last comment.
”Also very interesting to learn what your brother is learning. He is still a quarter century behind me but his opinion about catching criminals caught my attention…LOL.”
Old isnt always right, ivanov. In chemistry a lot of old fellas have no notion of what quality control or accountability means, and as such are liabilities half the time. An old lad in NZ told me: ”Years ago, they’d sent us a sample, and it’d be there for ages, and when eventually the mood took us we’d do something with it and a month later send em a result, the first number we pulled out of our arses”
Whilst extremely funny, this type of attitude frankly belongs back in the old days.
Likes to flex some military muscle, but only in the neighborhood. Guam is in the neighborhood?
Most Republicans I know think the man’s some kind of satanic evil. That is only national interests speaking. The playbook is largely the same for Putin vs. Republicans. They pander to their audience in similar ways.
The US president I most often compare Putin to is Teddy Roosevelt, for various reasons.
“Chris, I don’t think you made a valid point regarding why this matters in the slightest. Is the Russian Prosecutor General’s office going to let it slide, because Ingush police are ignorant hillbilly cops? Is it less incompetence or not murder if this happens in Moscow vs. Ingushetia (or Los Angeles vs. Mobile?).”
I think this is somewhat true and somewhat false. I know US comparisons are tired and lame, but I’m going to use one anyway. (I may not be accurate in the historical particulars, and the analogy is far from exact anywhere, but bear with me.)
If you have a racist court in say Alabama in 1948 that defends lynchers, wouldn’t it sound a little odd to say that “the American judicial system is defending lynchers”? No — that’s the one in Alabama. If the Las Vegas government is permeated with Mafia money, that’s not the US government, that’s the Las Vegas government.
As for what the Prosecutor’s Office does — let’s wait and see. It might surprise us. But I think in any case its ability to do anything in Ingushetia is circumscribed. (Which is another issue — people tend to talk as if Washington or Moscow or Beijing had ultimate responsibility for, and ultimate ability to control, what goes on on a local level, which for such large countries is not not true at all.)
“In chemistry a lot of old fellas have no notion of what quality control or accountability means, and as such are liabilities half the time.”
In the humanities you just get better and better, because the knowledge doesn’t go out of date. Which is why philosophers have a tendency to do the major works late in life and scientists early in life.
So you’d better hurry up.
W. Shedd:
~ Did Russia actually invade Guam? I guess by “flexing military muscle” I’m thinking less of “flying planes to make a point” and more of “killing people to make a point.” Or do you mean Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, and Moldova? That is the neighborhood.
~ Teddy Roosevelt? I’m with you on that, but I assume Sean means “contemporary” Republican. There are lots of “new” Democrats who fit a more Teddy Roosevelt mold, like Brian Schweitzer and Jim Webb. Lincoln was a Republican. If we’re being super flexible with definitions and connotations, I’d say a lot of Democrats these days are like Republicans.
I think I just have an aversion to casting Putin in any American party. Not only is it silly IRL, in the realm of hypothesis, I can’t imagine either party wanting him at the head of their ticket. (Though, after Palin, I suppose anything is possible.)
Do you think I mean chemistry?
You are wrong…
I think I just have an aversion to casting Putin in any American party.
As well you should. I brought up the issue because of the two articles I linked about suggest that Putin has an affinity for the Republicans. I just found the comparison and the assertion that his comments might be a veiled “vote” for McCain interesting. Is it preposterous? Certainly. But I’m not trying to make much of a real argument either way. I was more curious how people would respond to the suggestion.
That said, has anyone heard about United Russia and Kadima making a deal to open offices in Moscow and in Israel? Here’s an article from Haaretz about it. I don’t know what to make of this.
Good analogies, Chris. Let us just hope that whoever investigates this (whether in Moscow or Ingushetia) has sufficient guts and professional integrity. As you implicitly noted, though, these attributes are no guarantee that he will be able to get to the bottom of things.
I agree. What a bitch!
But what a show! The whole country (and many part of the world) is waiting to hear the name of Palin’s daughter “husband”
Kolya, forget about it – guts and integrity.
Don’t ask why – just forget
Ivanov:
What a circus! Russia should really be ashamed of itself, for not taking the democratic process as seriously as us Americans!
I particularly like how her foreign policy “credentials” are that her state of Alaska is, like, pretty close to Russia. LOL. Though I’d love to see someone arrange a hunting trip with Putin and Palin. The narrative possibilities would be endless…
Sean and others, I don’t think anyone can dispute that Putin’s speculation (that linked the White House’s desire to have McCain elected with the war in Georgia), if it has any effect on the US electorate (a big ‘if’), it benefits McCain more Obama.
The same with demonizing Saakashvili. I assume that many Georgians are pissed off at Saak, but when either Putin or Medvedev attack him even those Georgians who dislike him would end up rallying behind Saak as the country’s president.
“Уж если я чего решил, то выпью обязательно” (с)
I don’t think Putin had any desire to “help” any candidate. What for if both are sucks?
Well, if Palin is VP in November – then we’ll all get the Problem. She will teach first of all you how to take democracy more seriously. As I said – what a bitch.
PS. I don’t care who will win – “democrat” Obama or “republican” McCain. No difference anyway.
Ivanov:
I know you are just attempting to be provocative, but I don’t think being a “bitch” is a disqualification, or even a bad thing. I’d welcome one as President, so long as she illustrated some understanding of the world outside … Alaska, and had some clue as to what she was supposed to do in her post.
”Old isnt always right, ivanov. In chemistry a lot of old fellas have no notion
Do you think I mean chemistry? You are wrong”
I mean in everything ivanov. Saying you’re older and winking that you know better, simply cos your older, ”aint worth diddely-squat”.
” know you are just attempting to be provocative, but I don’t think being a “bitch” is a disqualification, or even a bad thing.”
In fairness I dont think ivanov is calling her a bitch in the rudest sense of calling all women bitches. I think he might mean that she in particular is a bitch. She’s easy on the eye though, its just a shame she’s one of these professed religious adherents. The minute I hear that I just switch off.
”What a circus! Russia should really be ashamed of itself, for not taking the democratic process as seriously as us Americans! I particularly like how her foreign policy “credentials” are that her state of Alaska is, like, pretty close to Russia. LOL”
Flaky American democracy is a million light years ahead of the current Bread-and-Circus Russian variant, and your kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Its like J-Lo telling Kate Moss she has a big arse.
And as for foreign policy, I dunno what the big deal is. The US should be more concerned with their atrocious budget deficit and debt mountain than getting overly worried about Russia – at the end of the day the US can blow them off the planet if worse comes to worst! If I was American I foriegn policy would be the very last thing on my mind when I voted.
OMG! It is so simple.
I was laughing at Shedd’s stories about his brother and how to catch criminals. Cause I was learning it 25 years ago. And as Chris pointed out – this is “humanitarian” discipline. So the older you are – the better you understand the subject.
“Мудрость приходит с возрастом. Но к некоторым возраст приходит один.” (с)
By saying that Ingush ment is Russian ment anyway and “law” in Ingushetia is same as in Moscow Shedd just showed that his knowledge was very theoretical about the subject.
For the record – I respect the work done by all “Russian” cops (as well as by US/British/Irish cops). But it doesn’t mean I must trust their words 100% (or 50%). Keeping in mind that we hear not their words but the words of mAss media (with zero trust rating).
“end of the day the US can blow them off the planet if worse comes to worst!”
Uh, Ger… I know you’re joking, but Russia is the only country that can totally obliterate the United States. In about 1 hour. Of course, it would annihilate itself in the process, as well as the rest of the planet (at least the squishy stuff on the surface), and probably delay the arrival of another sentient species by another 500 million years or so, which is what also would happen if the US tried to blow Russia off the planet.
Anyway, a lot of the anti-Russia posturing is the result of the effect of ethnic lobby groups in the States. I know Lyndon thinks these people are meaningless, but people who work in the US government tell me otherwise.
For instance, I was told by the guy who headed the US office in Poland in the 1980s that the Polish lobby was much more influential than the GOP line.
“Flaky American democracy is a million light years ahead of the current Bread-and-Circus Russian variant”
I’m not a US-hater, but really it isn’t.
“In fairness I dont think ivanov is calling her a bitch in the rudest sense of calling all women bitches.”
I think Poemless was interpreting “bitch” as meaning “woman who is aggressive or forceful.” Women are supposed to be meek in the dominant culture.
Sorry but not this time
Both.
I haven’t read my posts about her carefully! As i said – I haven’t heard such speeches as her nomination speech for almost 30 years.
You think that there is difference between politician – member of Soviet Communist Party and politician – member of US Republican party? Or any other politicians?
No.
It’s all about power and survival as politician.
And from this point Palin is the bitch cause she would do everything to get more power and survive in this f**king world of politicians. I saw and heard such women. The worst case scenario – “redneck” female politician.
I thought that Condy was the “best” sample of such person. But at least she is more sincere that Palin and while been stubborn not so eager for personal power.
“Это обстоятельство может показаться ничтожной мелочью. Но я думаю, что … это не мелочь, или это такая мелочь, которая может получить решающее значение” В.И. Ленин
And “republicans” who are so desperate they ready to appoint “черта в юбке” but to win – they really billion years ahead…
PS.”at the end of the day the US can blow them off the planet if worse comes to worst! ” – really nice joke from Irishman. But please don’t ask next time your stupid question why Russian somewhat skeptical about their western “friends”…
“
Should be
“You haven’t read my posts about her carefully!
UPD
About white and soft “opposition blogger” Yevloyev
“Тейп Евлоевых объявил кровную месть Муссе Медову. 02.09.2008 20:47
Сегодня представители тейпа Евлоевых, во главе с отцом Магомеда Евлоева, приезжали к Мусе Медову домой, но никого не было дома, либо им не открыли дверь. Через наш сайт тейп Евлоевых официально объявляет о кровной мести Муссе Медову.
http://ingushetiya.ru/
“Ivanov, I don’t think anybody here falls for the “Georgia is a young democracy” bullshit.”
I do! I do!
Seriously though, Georgia is a lot closer to becoming a real liberal democracy slash representative republic, what have you, than many other countries in the area. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and liberal democracies take time to develop. All said and done, the Georgians seem to have their hearts in the right place. They just need the right leader to make it all come together.
You can disparage Georgia all you want, but any country that inspired the movie “Mimino” can’t be all bad.
“And I absolutely cannot bear gore at all – I wont eat for a day after seeing something too gory.”
Do not see “Dead Alive” made by Peter Jackson. So wrong. So, so, so wrong.
I really liked the Blair Witch Project too. It is the only movie I can think of that actually gave me the chills other than the original Japanese movie “Ringu (The Ring)”. Jeesh, that movie was genius with the “3D” TV scene (sorry Kolya). Unfortunately, the Blair Witch Project had a very aggressive viral advertising campaign prior to release of the movie here in the US, which pretty much hype the movie more than it could ever bear. I made a point of ignoring the ad blitz, and it ended up making the movie much more enjoyable. “The Descent” was also really good, although I think “Deliverance” is a better movie at exploiting the untamed portions of the American south.
“Anyway, a lot of the anti-Russia posturing is the result of the effect of ethnic lobby groups in the States. I know Lyndon thinks these people are meaningless, but people who work in the US government tell me otherwise. For instance, I was told by the guy who headed the US office in Poland in the 1980s that the Polish lobby was much more influential than the GOP line.”
We have a guy from Latvia in our office. He is the moral authority on that part of the world. He thinks Russians are the dumbest people in the world. We Americans chuckle at his vigorous denunciations of Russians, but we can’t really argue with him, considering he is the only one to have dealt with them in any capacity.
“PS. McCain doesn’t need Putin’s support anymore. He got village girl from Alaska – the land of true Americans.”
Thanks for the laugh Ivanov. Seriously though, if you keep referring to Palin as a bitch, I might have to give you a bit of the ole’ knuckle sandwich, if we ever happen to cross paths. I don’t think that bitch and сука have quite the same connotations in both languages. Referring to a woman as a bitch in American is pretty much the same as calling her a cunt in British. It just simply isn’t acceptable unless she is truly an evil vindictive, manipulative…female. Palin is just a Republican. As bad as that may be, she doesn’t deserve the moniker.
By the way, I was trying to think of a word in English that describes “aggressive, strong-willed woman”. Other than the somewhat patronizing term “old betty”, I can’t really come up with anything.
”PS.”at the end of the day the US can blow them off the planet if worse comes to worst! ” – really nice joke from Irishman. But please don’t ask next time your stupid question why Russian somewhat skeptical about their western “friends”…”
The missiles are pointed both ways ivanov. And I dont think I ever asked that question…! My point was that in America’s list of problems to be dealt with, Russia is at rock bottom and I dont think they should waste too much energy on it. The Russians seem to have a fixation with how they are viewed by the Yanks, probably stoked up by the industrial-grade propoganda they get on their tv. The Americans I’d say in the vast majority of cases dont give a shit.
”Uh, Ger… I know you’re joking, but Russia is the only country that can totally obliterate the United States. In about 1 hour”
I thought it was 20 minutes. Apart from oil, I wonder would the US or EU pay any attention to Russia at all if they didnt have the nuclear arsenal?
”Do not see “Dead Alive” made by Peter Jackson. So wrong. So, so, so wrong.”
I met the man briefly once in Wellington, was introduced to him in a pub. A very nice guy I have to say, no pretensions at all.
”OMG! It is so simple.
I was laughing at Shedd’s stories about his brother and how to catch criminals. Cause I was learning it 25 years ago. And as Chris pointed out – this is “humanitarian” discipline. So the older you are – the better you understand the subject.”
There’s something deeply wrong about a middle aged Russian cop in Iceland saying ”OMG”!. Its a kind of phrase I associate with MTV’s The Hills etc. In fairness it is funny though.
I dunno about humanities, but if you says its true fair enough. In the sciences some old lads havent a clue, and as CD mentioned above you have to learn new stuff all the time cos things are changing. Even in my 12 years or so working the advances in instrumentation and QA are just amazing.
”For the record – I respect the work done by all “Russian” cops (as well as by US/British/Irish cops).”
They’re all bastards! I spent the night in the cells in a pub in Clare abut ten years ago, drunk and disorderly in a public place.
“Apart from oil, I wonder would the US or EU pay any attention to Russia at all if they didnt have the nuclear arsenal?”
Given the fact that Russia borders on every center of world power and overlaps the Muslim world, I would have to say yes.
The EU is not a country and does not have a single policy. Not to make this into a “which country has the biggest, manliest dick” contest, but I think it’s fair to say that Russia’s importance to the contemporary world is several levels higher than that of Germany, Britain, or France. Or Japan. Or any country other than the United States or China. I expect India to move up into that rank in the next 20 years or so.
“The Russians seem to have a fixation with how they are viewed by the Yanks,”
That’s because they compare themselves to the US due to the Soviet period. One superpower compares itself to the other. Plus, the US and Russia have a lot in common, so the comparison is natural.
“I dunno about humanities, but if you says its true fair enough. In the sciences some old lads havent a clue, and as CD mentioned above you have to learn new stuff all the time cos things are changing.”
Paradigms and fashions in the humanities change, but it’s not likely that there will be a discovery that proves that everybody has their Latin declensions all wrong. Maybe some documents will be found casting new light on a period of the Holy Roman Empire or an aspect of the the life of Dante, but that’s different from “whoops, there’s no etherial medium in space after all, time to rework the last 100 years of astronomy.”
I think I just have an aversion to casting Putin in any American party.
I wonder how long Putin would last in the rough-and-tumble of American politics. His skin seems a little thin for it.
The worst case scenario – “redneck” female politician.
I thought that Condy was the “best” sample of such person.
Condy Rice, being black and brought up in segregated Alabama, is a “redneck”? Has this word become as meaningless as “neo-con” and “fascist”, or does Ivanov have his own definition which differs from the norm?
Flaky American democracy is a million light years ahead of the current Bread-and-Circus Russian variant, and your kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Amen, brother.
And from this point Palin is the bitch cause she would do everything to get more power and survive in this f**king world of politicians.
Palin’s most notable achievement was taking on a corrupt, old boys establishment and winning. I can understand why this may not go down well with those who like the current state of affairs in Russian politics.
“Condy Rice, being black and brought up in segregated Alabama, is a “redneck”?”
You racist bastard. The word is “Native American-neck.”
It is the only movie I can think of that actually gave me the chills other than the original Japanese movie “Ringu (The Ring)”. Jeesh, that movie was genius with the “3D” TV scene (sorry Kolya).
Funny, that is the only other film which really frightened me, only I thought the remake was better than the original. Having discussed this on other forums, people tend to think whichever they saw first was the better. It was a superb concept, in any case.
I think it’s fair to say that Russia’s importance to the contemporary world is several levels higher than that of Germany, Britain, or France. Or Japan.
I don’t think it’s anywhere close. Other than an improved economy and rather fanciful ideas as to its potential to provide the world’s gas, on most measures Russia has little more importance than it did in the 1990s.
Exactly what geopolitical clout do Germany, Britain, or France have?
“Other than an improved economy”
““Тейп Евлоевых объявил кровную месть Муссе Медову. 02.09.2008 20:47
Сегодня представители тейпа Евлоевых, во главе с отцом Магомеда Евлоева, приезжали к Мусе Медову домой, но никого не было дома, либо им не открыли дверь. Через наш сайт тейп Евлоевых официально объявляет о кровной мести Муссе Медову.”
Wow. I didn’t think teips were this important in contemporary Ingushetia.
Exactly what geopolitical clout do Germany, Britain, or France have?
Britain, and to a lesser extent France, have seriously influential ties with most of their former colonies. The diplomatic relationships, and hence influence, Britain and France has in this regard are something the Americans would love to have. The British Ambassador in the UAE and Kuwait have almost unrestriced access to the Emirs. By contrast, the Russian embassy in Kuwait was best known for a place to source illegal alcohol.
Britain, France, and Germany also have financial and business ties all over the world, some going back decades, which allow them to exert influence. From financial institutions such as Allianz and HSBC, through industrial service providers such as Siemens, Alstom, Linde, and Rolls Royce, to oil and mining companies such as BP, Total, and Billiton all serve to ensure British, French, and German technology and workers are heavily involved in many nations’ development and the building of their infrastructure at all levels of the project. South America, S.E. Asia, Africa, and the Middle East are crawling with Brits, Germans, French, and a host of other nationalities representing their respective insurers, legal firms, engineering companies, etc. By contrast, Russians are thin on the ground outside the tourist beaches.
There’s also the penchant for powerful foreigners to send their kids to British schools, British universities, and British military schools, meaning half the dictators in the world personally know a British officer. This comes in considerable handy when leaning on some banana republic to vote the right way in the UNSC.
I have no doubt that the global influence of the European nations is far, far less than it was and continues to dwindle. But having travelled around a fair bit over the past few years, I’ve seen it is still very much there. I don’t see Russia or its representatives wielding the same influence, despite their recently increased stature.
Britain and France have influence in their former colonial possessions (of which Germany has none, or practically none, unless you want to count Poland
), just like Russia has in the former Soviet space. They are in other words regionsl powers (despite the geographically fractured character of the regions). If one wanted to engage in a geopolitical pissing contest (which is lame and pointless), you would have to somehow compare British influence in say India or South Africa or Ireland to Russian influence in say Ukraine or Armenia. I don’t think there is much of a contest.
However, I think these kinds of debates are silly.
If one wanted to engage in a geopolitical pissing contest (which is lame and pointless),
If you dismiss any discussion of the relative global influence of various countries as a geopolitical pissing contest, then yes, it is lame and pointless.
Yeah! Georgia is rather close to becoming a real state after all these almost 20 years *joke, of course*
Are you talking about million Georgians living in Russia (mainly in Moscow)?
So you think Saakashvili is not their best try?
“Mimino” was inspired by CCCP but anyway I agree – it was not all bad
He is right.
Russians gave Latvians the country.
Russians gave the guy good education (unless he is cleaning floors in your office).
So Russian must be really dumbest people in the world to allow him to say so.
BTW, ask him what he thinks about латышские стрелки.
No problem
No problem
I refer to the “american” bitch only.
Do you feel this also?
Redneck republican male politician is just a male politician. Nothing special.
But to be a FEMALE – means been something special that one should prove every minute she is that one. To do so – she must be the bitch. This is what my humanitarian experience says to me
“We have a guy from Latvia in our office. He is the moral authority on that part of the world. He thinks Russians are the dumbest people in the world.”
Yet, oddly enough, Riga was built by Russians and Germans.
”Not to make this into a “which country has the biggest, manliest dick” contest, but I think it’s fair to say that Russia’s importance to the contemporary world is several levels higher than that of Germany, Britain, or France. Or Japan.”
In fairness I wasnt getting into a pissing match, but had the price of oil not went mad, Russia would still only be a bit-part regional player along the lines of Bulgaria or Romania (which it was in the 1990s). Russia, and the USSR, have never done anything themselves to earn Superpower status, bar build nuclear weapons(though I wll grant 1945 as a massive achievement). If they hadnt those then nobody would take a bit of notice of them. Russians had conned themselves into believing their own crap when they were the USSR, and now, flush with a few roubles, they’re trying to live the dream again. And all it is is fallacy. Most of Russia is a billion years behind Britain, France, the US and even Ireland where our quality of life is just in a different class altogether.
If having nuclear weapons and a foul-mouth Prime Minister who talks plenty of talk makes one a superpower, well then I guess Russia is, but dont even begin to compare them with Japan or Germany, cos thats just a joke.
”If one wanted to engage in a geopolitical pissing contest (which is lame and pointless), you would have to somehow compare British influence in say India or South Africa or Ireland to Russian influence in say Ukraine or Armenia. I don’t think there is much of a contest.”
We would listen to the Brits, certainly, and trust them ahead of Russia. No offence but countries that veto sanctions against the likes of Zimbabwe, the Junta in Burma and North Korea simply dont have any credibility. And unlike Ukraine and Russia, we dont have the Brits threatening us – is that co-operation and influence? No, that is fear.
Did I say I\’m Russian cop?
OMG is just a polite version of Russian \”Ты чо тупой? Ты не понял?\” : ))))))
”OMG is just a polite version of Russian \”Ты чо тупой? Ты не понял?\” : ))))))”
Ponimayu!
Yeah, like that was so obvious!! OMG is an abbreviation students and kids here use for ‘Oh My God’ when they’re trying to sound like someone from Clueless or The Hills (which a brilliant programs, btw)
”Did I say I\’m Russian cop?”
You’ve said before you work in a Police dept. You may not be a Russian cop, but you’re Russian and a cop at least. Or else you’re making the tea for the fuzz. Fill us in.
“And unlike Ukraine and Russia, we dont have the Brits threatening us – is that co-operation and influence? No, that is fear.”
(Hits head on desk.)
The population of Ukraine is pro-Russian. They do not FEAR Russia. They LIKE Russia. They FEAR NATO. Putin has a higher approval rating in Ukraine by about 5 times than the Ukrainian president does.
(Ceases hitting head on desk.)
“Russia, and the USSR, have never done anything themselves to earn Superpower status, bar build nuclear weapons(though I wll grant 1945 as a massive achievement). If they hadnt those then nobody would take a bit of notice of them.”
This claim is, by the way, complete bullshit, and something nobody in India, China, Latin America, the Middle East, or 90% of the rest of the world would say while keeping a straight face.
”The population of Ukraine is pro-Russian. They do not FEAR Russia. They LIKE Russia.”
So much so they voted in a pro-Europe, pro-USA and pro-NATO President? I do appreciate that most of them dont want to join NATO, but can you in all honesty say that the majority of Ukraine is pro-Russia??
”This claim is, by the way, complete bullshit, and something nobody in India, China, Latin America, the Middle East, or 90% of the rest of the world would say while keeping a straight face.”
Not at all. Apart from weapons exports, nuclear weapons and oil, what does Russia have that makes it anything more than a regional power? If it hadnt those things it’d be nowhere.
“So much so they voted in a pro-Europe, pro-USA and pro-NATO President? I do appreciate that most of them dont want to join NATO, but can you in all honesty say that the majority of Ukraine is pro-Russia??”
They voted him in with a majority of about 1% of the vote, in an election with vote rigging on both sides, in which his being “pro-Western” was not the main reason for the voting, and his rival at the time is currently the most populatr politioian in Ukraine.
Yes, I can say that the majority of Ukraine is “pro-Russia.” Do the majority want to be part of Russia? No. Do the majority view Russia favorably. Hell yes. The thing is is that the current Ukrainian government rests on the support of Eastern Ukraine, which is a section added by Stalin that does not reflect Ukrainian general opinion.
“Not at all. Apart from weapons exports, nuclear weapons and oil, what does Russia have that makes it anything more than a regional power?”
The “region” in this case is one-sixth of the Earth’s landmass and its surrounding territory, i.e., Europe and Asia and the Middle East and Alaska. You don’t see a difference with Bulgaria here?
We were talking about the USSR, and the fact of the matter is that the USSR had a huge amount of economic clout and a lot of friends brought by that clout. Where do think India got its industry from?
What the hell do you need “apart from weapons exports, nuclear weapons and oil”*? This is like saying, “what does the Wehrmacht have that makes it a great army, apart from all those weapons and tanks and soldiers and airplanes?”
*And gas, which seems to have been forgotten about for some reason despite it being the major export to Europe.
“Ukrainian government rests on the support of Eastern Ukraine”
Western, I mean.
Since I know that relative living standards are going to be brought up, I shall now state that they are totally irrelevant a country’s great power status. If they were the criterion, Ivanov would be living in the greatest empire the world has even seen.
In fact, great power status often (usually?) harms living standards at home. Just ask Benjamin Disraeli. (Or his ghost.) In fact that was one of the reasons for breaking up the USSR.
No I didn’t.
OMG.
I learned a lot more than Russian cop needs to know. That’s enough for you to know. Or do you want to know my личный номер?
The point was – Shedd was sure Ingush cop=Russian cop. And funny thing was – Shedd was telling me about what cops should know.
Maybe Ivanov is a supercop, like that Die Hard guy. Or Robocop!
“If you dismiss any discussion of the relative global influence of various countries as a geopolitical pissing contest, then yes, it is lame and pointless.”
No, I think it’s not the kind of thing you can rate on a linear scale.
“Seriously though, Georgia is a lot closer to becoming a real liberal democracy slash representative republic, what have you, than many other countries in the area.”
I’d put it at about the same position as Belarus.
Chris.
I cracked me
I’m Coporob indeed.
PS. Ukranian “Senat” cut the power of president yesterday. Now Yuschenko is almost nobody.
”The “region” in this case is one-sixth of the Earth’s landmass and its surrounding territory, i.e., Europe and Asia and the Middle East and Alaska. You don’t see a difference with Bulgaria here?”
Yes I do see a difference. The size. And the missiles. And that is all.
”We were talking about the USSR, and the fact of the matter is that the USSR had a huge amount of economic clout and a lot of friends brought by that clout.”
So much so that it collapsed under the weight of low oil-prices and the Chernobyl disaster. I think neither Britain nor the USA would have collapsed had these things happened to them. In fact the USSR was so economically powerful that come 1991 there was nothing in the shops to buy, and a year later changing 100 dollars in Russia would yield a wheel-barrow full of roubles. Yes, certainly economic might alright.
”What the hell do you need “apart from weapons exports, nuclear weapons and oil”*? This is like saying, “what does the Wehrmacht have that makes it a great army, apart from all those weapons and tanks and soldiers and airplanes?””
Its not the same thing at all. My point is that without nuclear weapons and high oil prices nobody would give a shit what Russia said. To me a Superpower is a country like the USA, Germany or France, countries who have real economic and political clout and who can influence each other. Russia, even with her weapons, does not have that influence. Indeed her only influence is over a few ex-satellites, pariah states like Iran (aand that isnt even influence – thats business, Iran buys services from Russia!)and former FSU countries, most of which have a lower GDP than that of Ireland. Influence? In a Superpower sense? You be the judge. Think of it this way – the USA can influence and make the Brits and Germans do things in a way the Russians cant. Nobody really listens to the Russians and only take notice when they start adventures like Georgia last month.
”In fact, great power status often (usually?) harms living standards at home. Just ask Benjamin Disraeli. (Or his ghost.)”
I wouldnt ask Disraeli, I’d ask Gladstone, but at any rate, I dont think that living standards in Britain suffered from colonial expansion – quite the opposite in fact. From 1870-1914 Britain had an economic boom at home, unless I’m mistaken – we should know cos we had to supply the grub. The USA’s adventures in Europe didnt lead to economic disaster – look at the 1950s, wasnt that a high in American economic strength? No. Russia built rockets and spacecraft and yet still couldnt master the simple act of feeding themselves. Funny that. Says a lot about priorities in that part of the world. And its still the same. How many Russian villages are close to third-world poverty? The acetone drinkers?
As for Ukraine, if you say its so, I believe you, I only know a handful of Ukrainians here.
“Yes I do see a difference. The size. And the missiles. And that is all.”
And that little “all” means that Russia has and has always had a lot more influence that Bulgaria… This is like saying, “I see a difference between Mike Tyson and Steven Hawking. The size. And the muscles. And that is all.”
“In fact the USSR was so economically powerful that come 1991″
1991
“To me a Superpower is a country like the USA, Germany or France, countries who have real economic and political clout and who can influence each other.”
Germany and France are not superpowers in any but the highly idiosyncratic “to me” sense of the term, unless you live in Wonderland. Unless you haven’t noticed, Russia influences Germany quite a bit. If you think the USSR didn’t influence countries all over the world, you’re out of your freaking mind.
“Indeed her only influence is over a few ex-satellites, pariah states like Iran”
And Germany.
And China. And India. And Israel. Pull your head out of your butt. It must be stanky in there. BTW, Washington not liking you does not make you a “pariah.”
“the USA can influence and make the Brits and Germans do things in a way the Russians cant. ”
Why do you think Germany blocked MAPS for Georgia? Why did Germany try to stop the US invsaion of Iraq?
“In a Superpower sense?”
Russia is not a superpower now and nobody said that it was.
“The USA’s adventures in Europe didnt lead to economic disaster”
The USA has never had adventures in Europe.
”I learned a lot more than Russian cop needs to know. That’s enough for you to know. Or do you want to know my личный номер?”
Ah, no, but you’ve definitely said before you worked in some sort of investigation dept. Maybe you’re a traffic warden?
Definitions
superpower
noun
a sovereign state with dominant status on the globe and a very advanced military, especially the Soviet Union or United States
Well now I’m glad that’s settled, and I am happy to see that neither Germany nor France meets the definition of superpower.
”Germany and France are not superpowers in any but the highly idiosyncratic “to me” sense of the term, unless you live in Wonderland”
They are not superpowers, but they are more important than Russia is.
”If you think the USSR didn’t influence countries all over the world, you’re out of your freaking mind.”
WHO? Exactly who? Apart from making a bollocks of Eastern Europe and SE Asia and bankrolling a few dictators in Africa and handing out money to Mao,(who eventually told them to fuck off and mind their own business)?
What great nations exactly did the USSR influence?
”Indeed her only influence is over a few ex-satellites, pariah states like Iran”
And Germany. And China. And India. And Israel”
No Chris. These countries are not influenced by Russia. They BUY shit from Russia. Spot the difference? Which of them have given Russia even an inch of backing over South Ossetia? NONE. Not even China! And credit to them! Russia has wares to sell and thats it but it isnt influence. In fact in Iran’s case, it looks like the Iranians are playing with the Russians, using them for rescue in the UNSC, rather than the other way around?
”And Israel. Pull your head out of your butt. It must be stanky in there.”
Perhaps you should take your head out of Putin’s butt for a minute? Or let his balls out of your mouth? Foo!
“WHO? Exactly who? Apart from making a bollocks of Eastern Europe and SE Asia and bankrolling a few dictators in Africa and handing out money to Mao,(who eventually told them to fuck off and mind their own business)?
What great nations exactly did the USSR influence?”
ALL OF THEM.
“Which of them have given Russia even an inch of backing over South Ossetia? NONE.”
So what?
“Perhaps you should take your head out of Putin’s butt for a minute? Or let his balls out of your mouth? Foo!”
Maybe you should learn a bit more about the way the world is structured, instead of acting like an ignorant twit (who makes up his own definitions of words) instead of the smart guy I know you really are.
“These countries are not influenced by Russia. They BUY shit from Russia. Spot the difference?”
When people buy stuff from you, that sort-of gives you influence over them, you know. Or are you going to argue that China and Saudi Arabia have no influence over the United States?
Palin’s most notable achievement was taking on a corrupt, old boys establishment and winning. I can understand why this may not go down well with those who like the current state of affairs in Russian politics.
Very well said, Tim. I was trying to put my finger on why ivanov would be so beside himself over her.
”Maybe you should learn a bit more about the way the world is structured, instead of acting like an ignorant twit (who makes up his own definitions of words) instead of the smart guy I know you really are.”
Alright, fair enough, I take it back, sorry, I am being a bollocks. The USSR was in fairness a superpower, but I dont think Russia can make any claim to even being anything more than a regional one.
”Which of them have given Russia even an inch of backing over South Ossetia? NONE.”
So what?”
If Russia had real influence with any of those states, then they’d have gotten some, even tentative sympathy. But they havent. I still think Russia is just a shopkeeper in this sense.
Putin is nothing less than a Soviet KGB communistic leader who is little and has to attack a small, weak, sovereign democrat TINY country becuase he has a “tiny little penis” !! They said ‘we want repect”…you cant force someone to repect you, you must earn it…Putin is an idiot!! THey have taken away all democratic freedoms and are intimidated by the Great and Powerful USA who took down the communist soviet bloc and we can and should do it again by standing with our allies there, Ukraine, Georgia, Romania, Poland and all the other caucuses. We, (Nato/USA, EU) should not let Russia/Putin flaunt themselves this way. we should blockade Georgia and force the Russian ships away from Georgia and Ukraine and with Turkey block the Bosperus Strait. The Russians are the most educated stupid people in the world as they cant control their country regardless of who is in charge. They are simply idiots!! No there is absolutely no US conspiracy with Georgia against Russia…remember Putin must say stupid empty things like this because he is little andhe has a little penis !! All free countries should stand behind Georgia and get their country and their land back. Putin gave away Russian citizenship to people in Georgia so that he could say there are Russia citizens there so we must go in to protect them. He has made the only conspiracy.
Use your head readers/bloggers and look simply at the facts. We…the USA are everything to everyone and WE should represent Peace by protecting freedom and democracy around the world. Strong Free countries bring peace and democracy not bloggers, journalists or reports !!!
What was that?
”What was that?”
I dunno man. But not my fault!
I do not simply believe in freedom as it pertains only to the USA but I believe in it for everyone and in making others free and helping them against weak countries like Russia who could not even in their strength defeat the Taliban….the Taliban crushed their weak army. Russian is years behind the EU or USA in military might but simply have only a delapidated rag tag army. It was a joke to see them and their equipment going in to Georgia. We should kick their tiny little assess out of Georgia and stand firm against their tyrranic rages!!
Someone didn’t get his pills today?
I believe in correct spelling and use of punctuation.
Palin’s most notable achievement was taking on a corrupt, old boys establishment and winning.
That’s an overstatement of her credentials, and she has proven to be hillbilly-corrupt herself. “Jethro, fix it so Billy Bob get’s hisself fired from the po-lice!” Yep, just the kind of responsible use of authority we have been sorely lacking in the White House. The idea of this woman being one of great-grandpa McCain’s heartbeats away from leading the most powerful nation on earth, after being mayor of Podunk for a couple of years is mucking findgobbling. She would barely be qualified to organize a regional hockey league in the lower 48 states.
The USSR was in fairness a superpower, but I dont think Russia can make any claim to even being anything more than a regional one.
Chavez would disagree. Even if you consider Russia only a “regional power” it places Russian influence well ahead of any other country in the world, other than the US. Let’s face it … it’s a huge region from Poland to Turkey to Ukraine to Central Asia to India to Japan.
Putin is nothing less than a Soviet KGB communistic leader who is little and has to attack a small, weak, sovereign democrat TINY country becuase he has a “tiny little penis” !!
Words fail me.
I believe in correct spelling and use of punctuation.
I believe in low cost prescriptions to all of those who need them.
And forcible administration of said medications when required.
follow ups…
I suspect it is a matter of apples and oranges, and frankly don’t know what it means when one calls themselves a democracy, since just about everyone in every corner of the political spectrum claims to value democratic ideals, regardless how they actually govern. I think it is valid to turn a critical eye on our own willingness to uphold democratic ideals (speaking as an American) if we’re going to traipse about the planet lashing others (Russia) who fail to uphold them. I’m just saying, if our goal is to democratize the universe, we should do more leading by example and less leading by forced regime change and bullying. Also worth noting, I’m very active in politics in the US, and I see the sausage being made daily. Maybe it looks a million light years ahead from your perspective, but from the inside, its the same age-old game. I think the ideas and mechanisms of American democracy are light years ahead of any other country I can think of. But in practice, it truly is a criminal racket. Sorry to burst your bubble. Also, I must confess, that the political world I inhabit is located in … Chicago. And Chicago democracy *is* the current Bread-and-Circus Russian variant. That may help to explain my cynicism, and curious appreciation for the current Russian political “process.” I also hold the opinion that democracy should be viewed as a tool, not a religion. It is not implicitly ideal. It’s only ideal in as much as it is effective. Like Communism. Noble sentiments don’t prevent atrocities.
Tochno…
I suspected Ivanov meant it to be derogatory. I think the characteristics in women which lead men to call them “bitches” are usually assets (strong, outspoken, feisty, powerful, independent.) I don’t think it is a legitimate political criticism.
I don’t like Palin because of her hypocritical theocratic weirdness. Maybe you’d have to live here to fully appreciate the creepy factor of the US Religious Right. Her “cleaning up corruption” campaign seems to be losing veracity by the hour. And unless she’s planning on running for office in Russia, I don’t see the logic in this reasoning, Tim. She just doesn’t have that leverage at this time. But if you insist, you could make the argument that those who like the current state of affairs in Russian politics would support Palin, because she could be the key to making that $65 billion tunnel a reality.
But anyway, my antipathy for Republicans and my fascination with the current state of affairs in Russian politics are not really related.
William, everyone knows it’s not the size but what you do with it that counts.
Dear Willian, as a patriotic American you should disable your spam filter and respond to all those enlargement ads. Don’t worry, I know very well that you don’t need them, you are an American, after all. But for the sake of protecting the innocent, once you get all those packages, send them by Fedex to Mr. Putin. He will not only be grateful to you, but, as your deep insight made it clear, he would not have any need to compensate for his smallness by doing things like putting on a funny custom with a black belt and then throw people over his shoulder, walk around the wilderness with his shirt off, shoot tigers, invade little countries, and so on.
Condy Rice, being black and brought up in segregated Alabama, is a “redneck”? Has this word become as meaningless as “neo-con” and “fascist”, or does Ivanov have his own definition which differs from the norm?
Two comments here. With her academic credentials, Hoover Institution behind her (soon to be back at Stanford again), classical piano skills, Condi is hardly a redneck, but I find attacks at her from some men to be so comically predictable, I am not sure how they can not see themselves.
The redneck issue in general is interesting and it is ironic that of all people it was ivanov that brought it up. A couple of years ago I read Thomas Sawell’s Black Rednecks… book. He very persuasively traces current black ghetto culture to anti-bellum southern whites and further to English crackers.
But when he describes common traits: affection for gaudy jewelry and clothes, propensity to drink and party rather then work and save, cavalier attitude to human life, promiscuity and particular attitude towards women – I could not but think how much those traits apply to the current Russian culture.
Numerous similarities between Black getto culture and Russian ‘krutizna’ culture were noted repeatedly by many.
“Even if you consider Russia only a “regional power” it places Russian influence well ahead of any other country in the world, other than the US. Let’s face it … it’s a huge region from Poland to Turkey to Ukraine to Central Asia to India to Japan. ”
Thank you. This was my point. Russia is powerful in part simply by virtue of being big. Saying Russia and Romania are both just regional powers is akin to saying that Jupiter and Mercury are both just planets.
Numerous similarities between Black getto culture and Russian ‘krutizna’ culture were noted repeatedly by many.
Love of cognac, to name but one.
Thank you. This was my point.
Yes, I found your point perfectly legitimate, coherent, and accurate. I think Russia is returning to being well-beyond a regional power in any case.
Or as many Russians would prefer to think of it, the world is returning to normalcy.
Continued close relations with Venezuela, Syria, Germany, and Cuba point to a Russian government that wants global influence. That is without even considering expanded Russian business interests abroad and companies around the world investing in Russia. Those are the ties that bind, and that make this so called “Cold War II” nothing more than a fizzle. Lack of US/Russia cross-investment also makes it likely that a wedge could be created over time between US and European relations.
“““Тейп Евлоевых объявил кровную месть Муссе Медову. 02.09.2008 20:47
Сегодня представители тейпа Евлоевых, во главе с отцом Магомеда Евлоева, приезжали к Мусе Медову домой, но никого не было дома, либо им не открыли дверь. Через наш сайт тейп Евлоевых официально объявляет о кровной мести Муссе Медову.”
Wow. I didn’t think teips were this important in contemporary Ingushetia.”
Please dispel at least some of my ignorance. Is this an angry but ultimately empty gesture on the part of the father, or is this for real? I mean, to people act to satisfy a blood feud obligation ordered by a teip or are contemporary feuds have more to do with money, turf and influence?
(BTW, I’m aware that there can be plenty of overlap, that it not necessarily an either/or thing. In the old days supposedly teip members felt honor bound to satisfy the blood feud even if it was materially counterproductive. Whether that was commonly true in practice, I don’t know.)
”Chavez would disagree. Even if you consider Russia only a “regional power” it places Russian influence well ahead of any other country in the world, other than the US. Let’s face it … it’s a huge region from Poland to Turkey to Ukraine to Central Asia to India to Japan.”
Yeah lads, great stuff – out of all those countries you mention, possibly only one (Ukraine) and Central Asia would take a blind bit of notice of the Russians. These themselves are hardly of great inportance.
Poland – would deliberately do the opposite to what Moscow wanted, just to piss them off.
Turkey – a Russian ally? Really? I suppose they do export plenty of cigarettes to Russia, without which the country would cease to function
India – buys stuff from Russia. If they decided to buy stuff from the USA instead? It isnt influence. The Russians flog them gear. It isnt the same thing.
Japan -again I would think the Russians have zero influence there, and so great is their friendship that the Japanese need visas to visit graves on the Kurils. Yes, clearly great friends altogether.
”Continued close relations with Venezuela, Syria, Germany, and Cuba point to a Russian government that wants global influence.”
Venezuela, Syria – yes, clearly global powers of enormous importance
Germany – I thought Merkel hated Putin and took no notice of him? If you mean ”jobs for the boys” like Schroder getting that nixer in charge of the oil pipeline from the Russians a few years back, well, I suppose that is influence.
Cuba – enough said.
If you mean Russia is a power in the sense of being a pain in the arse for the majority of its neighbours and has good ‘relations’ with a few pariahs like the Burmese junta, Syria, North Korea and Iran, then yes, it is a power I guess.
I could be wrong in this, but I think everyone here misjudges Russia’s importance in the greater scheme of things because we are all so closely involved with Russia or Russians for one reason or another. In the USA priority list, dealing with Russia is probably rock-bottom, and several hundred places behind relations with Japan, Britain and China and who is going to win American Idol this year.
Influence does not mean ally.
I could be wrong in this,
Yes. You’re wrong in this.
Certainly what the US thinks of Russia up until recently is not a measure of Russian world influence. The US is a bit late to that game. I would also say that due to recent events, Russia has moved up considerably, to being a talking point among presidential candidates.
I thought most of the rest of what you wrote was nonsense.
Venezuela, Syria – yes, clearly global powers of enormous importance
Not to pick on you and continue to reveal holes in your theory … but most of the world is comprised of countries with influence comparable to Venezuela and Syria. Venezuela in particular is buying influence in Central and South America these days, with oil deals.
Your logic seems to be, that because Russia can’t really influence several of the handful of big players in the world, they have no world influence.
That’s a poor argument.
Also, it is clear that Russia has influence among several EU member states and with China and Japan, who are all jockeying for position for Russia’s natural resources, most notably oil and gas.
“I mean, to people act to satisfy a blood feud obligation ordered by a teip or are contemporary feuds have more to do with money, turf and influence?”
I think there’s probably an overlap.
A few weeks ago we had a French Red Cross employee syaing with us while she was en route to Grozny (which she says looks really nice). She lived in Ingushetia several years and I asked her about teips. According to her they don’t carry much weight anymore.
Whether she’s right or not, I dunno.
”I thought most of the rest of what you wrote was nonsense.”
You mean where I spelt out how Russia’s influence amound bandit, pariah nations and other useless entities does not make it a world power?
”Not to pick on you and continue to reveal holes in your theory … but most of the world is comprised of countries with influence comparable to Venezuela and Syria.”
Yes. But Syria and Venezuela are only two of them.
”Certainly what the US thinks of Russia up until recently is not a measure of Russian world influence. The US is a bit late to that game. I would also say that due to recent events, Russia has moved up considerably, to being a talking point among presidential candidates.”
I would think its bottom of voters priorities, though posturing against the Russians may indeed grab a few votes. And if the trouble with Georgia hadnt broken out, then it’d hardly get a mention.
”Also, it is clear that Russia has influence among several EU member states and with China and Japan, who are all jockeying for position for Russia’s natural resources, most notably oil and gas.”
I wasnt aware that oil companies represent national governments in the West, but there you have it I guess.
”Your logic seems to be, that because Russia can’t really influence several of the handful of big players in the world, they have no world influence.”
From what you’ve been saying they have influence over a few 2nd-rate countries. I’d say they have very limited global influence at this moment, and, were it not for oil, something they were endowed with rather than developed themselves, they’d have fuck all influence even over these places. If you think having the ear of Syria and Venzuela makes Russia a global power, I simply do not share that view.
“You mean where I spelt out how Russia’s influence amound bandit, pariah nations and other useless entities does not make it a world power?”
Nobody said Russia was a world power. There is only one world power.
I was unaware that India, China, Germany, France, Italy, and Israel were bandit, pariah nations and other useless entities. Neither is Venezuela for that matter.
Face it, you’re just empirically wrong, yet you are clinging to your demonstrably false belief with all the determination of a pre-Vatican II Catholic holding onto the Latin Mass.
The population of Ukraine is pro-Russian. They do not FEAR Russia. They LIKE Russia. They FEAR NATO. Putin has a higher approval rating in Ukraine by about 5 times than the Ukrainian president does.
I think we’ve found where Averko went.
This claim is, by the way, complete bullshit, and something nobody in India, China, Latin America, the Middle East, or 90% of the rest of the world would say while keeping a straight face.
Oh! And:
I think it’s fair to say that Russia’s importance to the contemporary world is several levels higher than that of Germany, Britain, or France. Or Japan.
would have everybody with stern expressions nodding their heads in agreement?
In fact, great power status often (usually?) harms living standards at home.
That must be why Americans are boiling stones for soup.
”Nobody said Russia was a world power. There is only one world power.”
Ahem:
”Your logic seems to be, that because Russia can’t really influence several of the handful of big players in the world, they have no world influence.”
What is ‘world influence’ so? Nobody is arguing that Russia isnt a power alongside that of the USA. What I’m arguing is that Russia isnt even alongside France and Britain. When I speak of the USA, I mean they couldnt give a shit about Russia really, and I stand by that belief.
”I was unaware that India, China, Germany, France, Italy, and Israel were bandit, pariah nations and other useless entities.”
I never called them pariahs. I was referring to Iran, Ukraine and Central Asia and the likes. Those other countries you mentioned – France, Italy etc – buy stuff from Russia; they are not influenced by it. I think you’re all confusing having the gas taps and the oil pumps with real influence. Russia can bluster all she wants; its becoming a buyers market for oil again and Russia needs the cash as much as the West needs the fuel.
”Face it, you’re just empirically wrong, yet you are clinging to your demonstrably false belief with all the determination of a pre-Vatican II Catholic holding onto the Latin Mass.”
Thats cos I havent seen a shred of empirical evidence demonstrating that Russia is a power on par with Germany and France. All I’m hearing is ‘influence with Venezuela and Syria’ and ‘Western/Chinese oil companies’.
No, I think it’s not the kind of thing you can rate on a linear scale.
Nor do I. Nor does anyone.
That’s an overstatement of her credentials, and she has proven to be hillbilly-corrupt herself. “Jethro, fix it so Billy Bob get’s hisself fired from the po-lice!”
This is precisely why the Democrats never do half as well as they should: they assume that all Republicans are southern hillbillies. Way to win the swing vote, fellas!
Sean, I already highlighted before and Cyrill also wrote about it, but let me repeat once again that I found the following words very insightful, even if they initially seem somewhat highfalutin:
“…what Putin was thinking when he asserted that the US might be behind the Georgian War. Bad information? Kooky conspiracy thinking. An age old Russian paranoia? Or was he somehow trapped in the simulacra of his own state media machine where the lines between reality and virtual are erased? An affirmative to the last question wouldn’t surprise me. I’ve witnessed this discursive circle in Soviet archival documents. The central and local Soviet leadership often referenced the press in internal reports. When I do come across this phenomena, I always ask: Don’t they know that the media is controlled? They can’t actually think the press is some reflection of reality? If the documents are any answer, they do and continue to do so. And this belief is not as simple as them “believing their own bullshit.” That is clear. Nor is such a belief unique to Russia. The real question is how and why this happens My short answer is that Putin & Co. are locked in their own rhetoric. There is no outside discourse with enough truth value to break the logic of their dominant discourse. Their belief, rhetoric, and power to control the parameters of acceptable speech reinforces themselves in a dizzying circle signification.”
And that little “all” means that Russia has and has always had a lot more influence that Bulgaria… This is like saying, “I see a difference between Mike Tyson and Steven Hawking. The size. And the muscles. And that is all.”
No, it’s not. Ger is correct. The west and the USSR competed on many grounds during the Cold War, much of which has carried over into the post-Cold War period. Not only was it a military confrontation, it was a cultural, moral, ideological, technological, and a whole host of other -als confrontation. The only reason the USSR hung in the game at all is because it could compete, and threaten, militarily. On all other fronts, they got whipped (with the exception of their taking an early lead in the space race). I don’t have time to dig this out, but Gaddis devotes half a chapter to this very point, that it was the possession of a huge conventional army and nuclear weapons that allowed the Cold War to drag out so long, without which it would have been game over by the 1950s.
Note that not many folk around the world are speaking Russian, sending their kids to Russian schools, putting pictures of Russian pop stars on their walls, wearing Russian clothes, using Russians software, and floating to Russia on a leaky inner-tube to better their lives.
But in practice, it truly is a criminal racket. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I am under no illusions as to the state of US democracy, but I still consider it to be light years ahead of the Russian version.
I see democracy as being a means to an end – that end being the protection of individual rights, civil liberties, freedom and the pursuit of happiness – not an end in itself. The American variety seems to have fallen a long way from this ideal, but at least in certain corners they pay lip service to this. In Russia, the purpose of democracy seems to be to decide which government can do what the hell it likes to anyone and everything. Individual liberty doesn’t even get a mention.
Tim, explain again how Palin “took on a corrupt, old boys establishment and won.” Please site her record on raising taxes while mayor. Tell me how much earmark-related money she actually gave back to taxpayers in the lower-48. Answer: none. She did not fight, but rather joined the old-boys network. She fired the police chief at the behest of her mayoral campaign backers – old men who were oil companies and bar owners.
The myth of the ‘hero woman’ who -outside the home – bests men at every turn through virtue and hard work, while – at home – never forgets to apply her make-up or rock her babies, is a toxic trap. False every time. A book I highly recommend is Frances de Plexis Grey “Soviet Women.” She researches and explains it well. As I said much earlier Palin = duma gymnists. That these people are effective in government is a myth some men and women like to propagate. The myth is not good for either sex in Russia or the USA.
”And that little “all” means that Russia has and has always had a lot more influence that Bulgaria… This is like saying, “I see a difference between Mike Tyson and Steven Hawking. The size. And the muscles. And that is all.”
No, it’s not. Ger is correct.”
Danke Shon Tim. In fairness you said it in the rest of that paragraph a lot better than I did for the last 20 comments. I simply cannot see how, apart from the missiles and intimidation in the most brutal and uncultured manner, Russia is even a serious regional power, in the sense of being able to influence places like China (not the likes of Uzbekistan). In fact I think that if Russia did not have nuclear weapons, they’d be in serious danger of annexation by China in the future. Falling population, atrocious health among the population, low life expectancy – I think Poland, Ukraine and China could carve the place up. In fairness that does sound bonkers, but if the missiles werent aimed at Beijing, I’m sure the Chinese would love to get their hands on the energy resources (and having worked with the Chinese, I can tell you with certainty they wouldnt fuck around with getting it on the market either) The only thing that saves Russia from being a poor man’s Saudi is nuclear weapons.
”Note that not many folk around the world are speaking Russian, sending their kids to Russian schools, putting pictures of Russian pop stars on their walls, wearing Russian clothes, using Russians software, and floating to Russia on a leaky inner-tube to better their lives.”
Ireland has had a greater cultural influence than Russia in the last 20 years, and there’s only 4 million of us here. And using Ireland as an example – Ireland is neutral (though admittedly friendly with the US, UK and France especially) and Russia is actually our single biggest beef export market. And yet Russia isnt even a dot on the Irish radar, a mere 4 hours from Moscow. Its unheard of. I mention my involvement with the place to people, they look at me and say ”I’d love to visit Moscow” (but never do because of ridiculous visa laws, so Prague and Budapest get the money instead) and go back to whatever else we were talking about beforehand. The Russians have about as much influence here as Dyed Moroz. In fact I’d say London would listen to Dublin ahead of Moscow any day!
Irishman стоял на “своем”. (с) : )))
As Shedd mentioned – pure nonsense. Not worth to argue with.
”I mean they couldnt give a shit about Russia really, and I stand by that belief.
Irishman стоял на “своем”. (с) : )))
As Shedd mentioned – pure nonsense. Not worth to argue with.”
Is amadan Ruiseach tu, a ivanov.:-) Ta an Ruis tir mor, sea, ach tir amaideacht. Ta An tir le bheal mor, ach le slat beag
The problem with Russians is they think the rest of the world gives a shit. Wake up. It doesnt. Get over it and move on.
The Aussies call it ‘’small dick syndrome”
Yes it’s real…
I think now you understand that talking about US cops vs. Russian cops vs. Ingush “cops” and telling “if it was in US it would be such and such” is a little bit … how to say…naive.
And you read Russian, don’t you? I gave the link to their site – so you can read what that “bloggers” are saying.
PS. Just keep in mind that 90% of people living there are good one. But 10% could create big trouble for all…
Relax, please.
By your logic – if the “world” doesn’t give a shit about Russia WHY Russia should give a shit about “world” (by “world” I mean US and EU of course)?
As Shedd mentioned – pure nonsense. Not worth to argue with.
Okay, Americans couldn’t give a shit about Russia until they invaded their neighbour and annexed part of their territory. Is this supposed to undermine what Ger is saying?
Not sure this sheds any light on the issue with Russia’s importance in American affairs, but of all my friends, family, and related acquaintances, (say over 100 people) I am only aware of one other person who has an interest in things Russian. He’s an old school friend I haven’t talked to in over 15 years, but just found out about on Facebook a couple weeks ago. All the rest of my friends/family just think I am a bit weird. They just don’t see what is interesting about Russia. Which brings up a weird epiphany I had about 3 months ago.
Me and two other good friends took a 5 day trip out to NW Nebraska, SW South Dakota, and Western Wyoming area. Basically just involved camping, drinking, off-roading, and shooting stuff, though not necessarily all at the same time. Anyway, near the end of our trip, we were all sitting in this Italian restaurant in Newcastle, WY (pop. approx. 3,000) eating some of the best pasta I can ever remember eating, when the conversation somehow veers toward the topic of Russia. One of my friends asks me why I find Russia so interesting. Now normally I wouldn’t have had any problem giving an answer, but now I was at a loss for words. After all the things we had done and seen over the preceding days, Russia just seemed really boring and mundane. In fact, I wasn’t even interested in checking out the Russo-centric blogs after I got back until the Georgia thing went off.
As much as everyone here may find this hilarious, America does fucking rock. You just have to get away from the large population centers. I realize there are other countries that have large swaths of land where you can do whatever you want, and nobody cares. But the beauty of BFE America, is that in pretty much every small town one encounters, you are guaranteed to find people both friendly and generally pretty content with life. And if the town is large enough to have a restaurant, the food is probably going to be pretty decent if not great, not to mention cheap.
So the point of all this is that, there is a lot of people in the US that find life interesting enough in the US that there is no reason to look abroad. It is why a lot of Americans really don’t care what happens outside the borders of the US unless it is a threat to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and why Russia will never get the attention it wants from the US.
Oh and one last thing, there are parts of America that are not fun. I took a trip once to the Allentown/Easton/Bethlehem area of Pennsylvania to see a friend and have never felt so claustrophoic and depressed in my life. I don’t understand how people can voluntarily live in that part of the country, not to mention have to deal with all the dorks in track suits.
Thanks for your story. And this is true story (I know it from personal experience). But let me add something.
1. people in the small towns of America really don’t give a shit about Russia. As they don’t give a shit about other world. Whether this is right or wrong – doesn’t matter for now.
2. I have never heard that Russian tanks occupied a single small town of big America and destroy their decent and cheap restaurants.
3. If so – why the FUCK you try to teach Russian and the rest of the world if you don’t give a shit anyway?
PS. Please could you call both Obama and McCain and tell them that you don’t give a shit about Russia. This might really save a lot of lives.
OMG!
My wife has no idea who Palin is. I’m not sure she even knows about Obama-McCain.
And she was in USA a couple of times (as well as in other countries).
Could we say she doesn’t give a shit about US and its attention?
PS. I think that more Russian visited US than number of US citizens who could show Russia on the map. So maybe people in US should give some shit?
Not to mention tax payer $$$s. Does Congress, the Senate, anyone get to vote on this $1 Billion Cheney promised to Georgia today? I think these sums are too great for those who don’t give a shit to contemplate – so they don’t.
”They just don’t see what is interesting about Russia.”
I get this all the time, and what began as curious looks at home (why is he into Russia..why not London, or Dublin, or Paris, NY, Syndey..??) has now reached a cacaophony of dissent. I have long since given up even trying to defend the Russians at home, which I did for a long time. The last few years have put both me and my family off the place totally. In fairness there are great guys like Kolya (funny but Kolyas always seem to be very nice for some reason!), Cyrill etc but the carry-on of the Russian government – and the simply shocking way in which the population have willingly swallowed their shite, simply cos of stability – I find it utterly depressing. Yes i know Russia in the 1990s was the pits, but for God’s Sake, cant the Russians be even a bit open minded about how their country operates and the people that run it? Do they have to laugh when Putin says ridiculous things like ”we’ll kill them in the shithouse”? I thought Russians were cultured and educated. But the sad fact is the majority are not. If they were, they’d have questions for Putin and Co. but they dont cos they are fed. I have yet to come across a nationality that so willingly swallows its own shite. I mean they are worse than the US in that sense, much worse.
”Now normally I wouldn’t have had any problem giving an answer, but now I was at a loss for words”
Me too! Me too. I think my love for the place began to fade in 1999, when they re-started bombing Grozny. I though it ”it cant be.”But it was. And things got worse as the economy improved. First NTV then TV-6 Moscow were taken control of by the Kremlin and eliminated respectively. Then the Kursk sank and I knew about it here in a village in the West of Ireland before they did in Moscow. And by turns the propoganda began. Mikhail Kodorkovsky got locked up and his company flogged before his appeal was heard. Opposition candidates buried by pro-government mass media before their campaigns could even start. Shell had their balls cut off in Sakhalin by Gazprom, helped by Russian environmental ‘inspectors’. The ham fisted attempts to get Yanukovich elected in Ukraine. And now the latest fun, the annexation of parts of a sovereign neighbour, after attempts to backrupt them with fraudulent food and wine bans failed. Russia is now even more corrupt now than it was in 1999, if that was actually possible.
Talk about the fucking pits eh? I’m not a Russophobe, but I’m not a Russophile anymore and I once was.
”..and why Russia will never get the attention it wants from the US.”
And thats the heart of the matter. They’re like a bad neighbour who pisses you off with loud music at 3am. You’re forced to give them attention, but in reality you couldnt care less about them.
ivanov, hate to say it, I’m sure you’re a nice chap, but your hysterical ranting only betrays the fact that Russians want attention and respect from the rest of the world, in particular the US, and arent getting any. Respect is something earned usually; levelling your own cities, switching off gas supplies and occupying foreign territory is not the way to get it. And before you mention Iraq, the US and UK at least had a stock of cred before that, something the USSR, and later Rossiya, never had.
I think that more Russian visited US than number of US citizens who could show Russia on the map. So maybe people in US should give some shit?
I think more Russians eat in the McDonalds on the Starii Arbat in a week than visit the US in a year.
When Russians, and the rest of the world, demonstrate their displeasure of the US by not eating their burgers, buying their trainers, worshipping their pop stars, watching their movies, downloading their software, and begging for a green card, maybe the US will give a shit.
Until then, it’ll be dismissed as empty rhetoric and ignored.
I think more Russians eat in the McDonalds on the Starii Arbat in a week than visit the US in a year.
Funny it is but with all the antimacdonalds sentiment I hear from Russians, one of the Moscow McDonalds’ is the busiest one in the world. The one in Munich is the 2nd… go figure
Funny it is but with all the antimacdonalds sentiment I hear from Russians, one of the Moscow McDonalds’ is the busiest one in the world. The one in Munich is the 2nd… go figure
Even more surprising, McDonalds is more profitable in France than in any other country, and more popular in France than in the UK.
Jason, one of the reasons I love the US is the vast open spaces of the American West. I lived in those areas for several years and because of the work I used to do I would spend several months at a time camping in the middle of nowhere (sometimes totally by myself except for a couple of horses and a dog). It was great. I think it’s a personality thing, some people are indifferent about such things. I love New York City and loved the two years I lived there, but I always knew that I could always return to Big Sky country. (I wish though less of the US looked like L.A. …) To be fair, Russia has even more of that vastness. I did some trekking in the Altai and it reminded me a lot of the American West except that it was even less developed and accessible. The problem is, though, that much of Russia is much less, should we say, “user friendly.” I never recommend friends to visit Russia. Actually, often I try to talk them out of it. It is only when I’m sure that they kind of know what they are getting into that I help and encourage them.
With respect to the US, I also agree that Americans are among the most friendly and helpful people in the world.
Chris,
After reading one of your comments here, I rashly claimed in another forum that in the Ukraine Putin is several times more popular than Yushchenko. After making such an extravagant claim, I was asked for sources. I looked around and didn’t find any. To avoid further embarrassment, can you help me out? Or do I have to eat my words?
Oh for goodness sakes… Putin is as much a closet Republican as Obama is.. and Obama is as leftist as they come.
Oh for goodness sakes, Putin is as much a closet Republican as Obama is, and Obama is as radical left as they come.
I should note that my last post wasn’t really meant to say Russia or any other country is necessarily inferior to the US. Only that parts of the US are so grand (rich in natural beauty and history) that there is no great desire to expand one’s horizons. Geography also plays a role in American inwardness, in that you can drive for days in a straight line and not leave the US. I assume any Russian can understand how geography can isolate.
To put in another way, there is enough of both trivial and meaningful “shiny things” present/produced within the confines of the US that there is no need to concern oneself with the rest of the world. As such, the rest of the world should not hold its breath waiting for the US population by large to take notice. That said, the Russian gov’t has found out that if you do want to get the US’s attention, the best way is through confrontation.
Koyla, I would love to explore the more rural regions of the Russian Fed, but as you have indicated, it is my understanding that doing so as a non-native would be suicidal. I guess it won’t really ever matter though since I couldn’t afford the time/money to go their anyway, and I don’t handle cold real well.
I found the movie “Okraina” very interesting and enjoyable, although I could tell a lot of the movie was going over my head due to my lack of background in Russian history and culture. Still, the film struck home the fact that there isn’t really much difference between the Russian peasant farmer and the American cowboy/farmer. Both only have the land and themselves to rely on. I do find it odd though that the rugged self-reliance of Russians would eventually morph into support for collectivism. I have never understood how those two things, self-reliance and collectivism, could coexist in Russia. Then again, maybe I just got it wrong and there is no such thing as the DYI (do it yourself) ethic in Russia.
“After reading one of your comments here, I rashly claimed in another forum that in the Ukraine Putin is several times more popular than Yushchenko. After making such an extravagant claim, I was asked for sources. I looked around and didn’t find any. To avoid further embarrassment, can you help me out?”
Lord, this was opinion polls I saw about a year ago. I can look around again. It’s not hard to extrapolate from the fact that Yushchenko is really unpopular given all the crashing and burning the Orange people have done over the years, coupled with the Ukrainian population’s generally pro-Russian (in the non-Averkian sense of the term) views and Yanukovich’s high rating (high for a Ukrainian politician).
“it is my understanding that doing so as a non-native would be suicidal.”
I know people who have done this.
“self-reliance and collectivism, could coexist in Russia”
It’s how farmers operate, and until quite recently most Russians were farmers. Agriculture, especially low-tech agriculture, is inherently collective. You can’t raise a barn by yourself. Also, small communities like rural societies or small towns are inherently collective because everybody knows everybody else. My dad grew up on a farm in Arkansas; I know that of which I speak.
“Americans couldn’t give a shit about Russia until they invaded their neighbour and annexed part of their territory.”
That’s because Russia wasn’t on TV, which determines what Americans think. Russia has always been important to the current US Administration for a variety of reasons, most important of which is the GWoT.
I mean, most Americans don’t give a shit about Britain either. Most probably don’t know where it is.
“I think more Russians eat in the McDonalds on the Starii Arbat in a week than visit the US in a year.”
So? They also eat lots of sushi.
Americans eat lots of Mexican food. I guess that means they must think highly of Mexico.
“And before you mention Iraq, the US and UK at least had a stock of cred before that, something the USSR, and later Rossiya”
The US and UK have never been very popular countries outside of some places in Europe, which as usual you are equating with the world.
Your memory is short. The USSR had immense cred worldwide, which worried the US considerably during the Cold War.
Tim and Cyrill.
You caused me think that McDonald is the real world superpower
Agree. And West Coast is awesome.
Agree. It’s just 30 minutes drive from my home. And if you can tolerate few people – 5 minutes walk.
It might have something with you as well. I guess you didn’t switch to Altai mode of thinking and was doing everything (and expressing it on your face and in your words) like in the US West. Like ordering hot coffee in the morning instead of stakan of warm vodka
???
Oh really? I thought people in general are friendly and helpful (unless you try to teach them democracy) everywhere. At least from my experience. The worst unfriendly idiot I met – immigration office in Seattle (well his name was Hardwood).
But remember – we are talking here about politician not people!!!!
“With respect to the US, I also agree that Americans are among the most friendly and helpful people in the world.”
Depends on where in America you are and which Americans you are dealing with. Southeast LA != rural Arkansas != Manhattan.
“And West Coast is awesome.”
I grew up in San Diego. If somebody were to point a gun at my head and force me to live in the US, I wouldn’t mind going back there. It’s a nice town near the desert and mountains. And, it has cougars and dolphins! Megafauna is always a plus.
We are saylin-n-n-n to kaliphorniya-a-a-a-a-a!
What pissed me off when I went back a couple of months ago is that most of the coffee shops in my old neighborhood had been replaced by fucking Starbucks.
The one I worked in when I was 21 was still there though.
Aha! Starbucks is the world superpower now!
PS. Sorry for my singing. I know, I know…my voice is terrible
“Aha! Starbucks is the world superpower now!”
Right. That Californians drink coffee at Starbucks is a clear indication of the great geopolitical clout of Seattle.
Southern California is actually a fierce battleground for geopolitical interests, as the mighty powers represented by Seattle coffee shops, Mexican and Japanese restaurants, German automobiles, and Italian Vespa scooters engage in a no-holds-barred fight to the finish. Unfortunately, Britain is represented in this new Great Game merely by Long John Silver’s Fish n’ Chips.
Kolya, this doesn’t address Yushie’s approval rating directly, but here’s a typical poll result in Ukraine:
Ukrainians prefer Russia to EU, NATO – poll
KYIV. Sept 4 (Interfax) – Ukrainian citizens prefer integration with Russia and other CIS member countries to that with European and Euro-Atlantic structures, judging by the results of a recent poll posted at the Thursday press conference at the Interfax-Ukraine office in Kyiv.
Twenty-seven percent of the respondents said they wished full-scale political and economic integration with Russia and other CIS countries, while 26% suggested economic integration within the CIS trade zone.
Only 17% wished the soonest EU membership, and another 23% supported more profound relations with the European Union and a free trade zone.
The Ukrainian National Academy of Sciences’ Sociology Institute polled 1,800 Ukrainians nationwide on August 15-27 by request of the Ukrainian Forum foundation.
Forty-three percent said that Ukraine should not join any blocs but strengthen the national armed forces.
Forty-six percent said that the possible accession to NATO would cause Ukrainian destabilization, and about 30% said the opposite.
Speaking of Ukraine. This is from my interpretation jobs. For those that did not know, Ukrainians now ask not to use the definite article in English and use в Украине instead of на Украине in Russian.
Tim and Cyrill.
You caused me think
Finally!
Sarah Palin is boasting about her record of imposing greater state controls over Alaska oil and gas resources, and bringing to heel the international oil companies (BP and Exxon-Mobil, specifically).
Perhaps Tim Newman can explain how is that different from Russians doing basically the same thing in Sakhalin and other places.
Of course, the devil is in the details. My theory is that Russians – as many, many times before – might have started with a sensible idea but then went way, way too far. They still can’t handle the measured approach.
Sarah Palin is boasting about her record of imposing greater state controls over Alaska oil and gas resources, and bringing to heel the international oil companies (BP and Exxon-Mobil, specifically).
She’s also is an advocate of allowing drilling in ANWR (and her hubby used to work for BP). So it is far from accurate to make her out as bringing big oil to heel. That’s spin.
Actually, I should make clear that domestic drilling, where practical/profitable, has to be part of US energy policy (if we ever actually develop one).
For those that did not know, Ukrainians now ask not to use the definite article in English and use в Украине instead of на Украине in Russian.
I thought this had been the case for a number of years? At least, dropping “the” in English, as I was taught this back around 2000 or so.
Don’t worry Jason the diy ethic is alive and well in Russia. http://www.oskrecords.com/
Forty-six percent said that the possible accession to NATO would cause Ukrainian destabilization, and about 30% said the opposite.
Whenever I see the results of such polls in Ukraine, I am reminded that opinions in that country are strongly regional, and those regional differences have a long history, based on Ukraine have been parts of other nations/empires in the past.
Unfortunately, Britain is represented in this new Great Game merely by Long John Silver’s Fish n’ Chips.
Really? Who are the Russian players? Teremok and Kroshka Kartoshka?
“Really? Who are the Russian players? Teremok and Kroshka Kartoshka?”
Stoli’s, Wally. STOLI’S!!!!!
“She’s also is an advocate of allowing drilling in ANWR (and her hubby used to work for BP). So it is far from accurate to make her out as bringing big oil to heel. That’s spin.”
The last I check Putin has no aversion to oil exploration (drilling), as well as imposing all sorts of controls over the international oil companies. Two different issues here.
Cyrill
is wrong.
There is simple rule to remember
В Грузии
В жопе (чесать)
На Украине (На Україні)
На жопе (вскочил прыщ)
“Запомныте, дэти – слова “тарелька” пышыца бес мяхкава знака! Слова “кон” пышыца с мяхким знаком!”
have been listening to Sarah’s speech at the convention.
After ten minutes feel same as when watching Soviet TV….Will try to watch the rest but can not guarantee.
What a bitch on the stage!
What a crowd of morons around the stage!
PS. It was one negr per 100 whites among delegates (or less)…. just a side note.
I have always found it odd that there is not more Russia choices in vodka, other than Stolychnaya, in the US. I found some Polish potato vodka once, down in Holland, TX which had a population in the 3 digit range. That liquor store had an amazing selection, due to the weird nature of Texas liquor laws and the fact that all the surrounding towns were dry.
When in a new town, the liquor store is always one of the destinations on the checklist, since you never know what regional oddities you might find.
“It’s how farmers operate, and until quite recently most Russians were farmers. Agriculture, especially low-tech agriculture, is inherently collective. You can’t raise a barn by yourself. Also, small communities like rural societies or small towns are inherently collective because everybody knows everybody else. My dad grew up on a farm in Arkansas; I know that of which I speak.”
How come American farmers didn’t accept collectivism during the Great Depression? Sure William Jennings Bryan might of had some pull at the chautauquas, but he never was able to truely make a go of it. Maybe the mix of nationalities in the US ended up being the wet blanket on extremism.
Thanks for the link daut! I will have to do some cross referencing on youtube.
I have always found it odd that there is not more Russia choices in vodka, other than Stolychnaya, in the US.
Not so Jason. You should come to LA. We have Russkyi Standart, Imperiia, Beloe Zoloto, Jewel of Russia, Putina, a few more I can’t remember then names of plus a whole host of Armenia vodkas, Georgian and Armenian wines and cognacs.
It pays to have a sizable Russian and Armenian community. No Georgian restaurant though which is a real bummer.
“No Georgian restaurant though which is a real bummer.”
But I’m sure L.A. surely must have either an Ossetian or Abkhazian restaurant. Right?
About twenty years ago (if not more), Aksyonov wrote somewhere that some new Soviet emigres that hailed from the Caucasus decided to open a restaurant, either in New York City or Washington, DC (forgot). Appropriately they called it, “Caucasian Restaurant”. They were puzzled by the weird and somewhat hostile looks they were getting from people walking by (a good portion of them being black.) Finally, a kind soul explained things to them. They changed the name to “Kavkaz” or something like that. (All this is from memory–some details may be off.)
“How come American farmers didn’t accept collectivism during the Great Depression?”
I’m not sure exactly what kind of collectivism you have in mind. Nationalization? Farmers have a small-community collectivism. They resist nationalization because, unless you are a subsistence farmer, your livelihood depends on selling your produce.
Industrial workers do not usually resist nationalization, because they work in huge collectives already and get paid wages, so it doesn’t affect their livelihood negatively. Not directly, anyway.
“It pays to have a sizable Russian and Armenian community.”
An Armenian coworker of mine, originally from Iran, visited LA a few years ago. She said there was a sizeable Armenian community but also “a lot of fucking Azerbaijanis.”
Perhaps Tim Newman can explain how is that different from Russians doing basically the same thing in Sakhalin and other places.
I would need to know more about what Palin has actually done. As far as I know, BP or Exxon’s operations have not been taken over by a national Alaskan oil company, and I doubt whatever actions she took involved issuing dozens of dubious environmental charges until BP or Exxon conceded the majority ownership of their half-built assets to the Alaskan government (after which point, all environmental issues mysteriously disappeared).
The last I check Putin has no aversion to oil exploration (drilling),
That’s true, but his past form on changing the tax laws whenever he feels like it and charging retrospectively, coupled with the fact that the foreign companies with the expertise to drill Siberia and offshore Russia safely and efficiently find it extremely difficult to do business in Russia, has meant that exploration activities are hopelessly below what they should be to maintain production.
Tim.
Are your comparing the governor of Alaska (and village mayor) with the Governor of Russia? Whatever Sarah might want to do – she was less even a dwarf while Putin was the Giant among giants. And you know – what is OK for Giants is impossible for dwarfs.
But lets see what Sarah will do when she joins the Giant’s club. I doubt you’ll like that though…
“That’s true, but his past form on changing the tax laws whenever he feels like it and charging retrospectively,”
I don’t really know the record here, but I suspect you would find things greatly improved in this respect from the Yeltsin period.
”I don’t really know the record here, but I suspect you would find things greatly improved in this respect from the Yeltsin period.”
I’d say Mikhail Khodorkovsky could tell you a thing or two about retrospective taxes. That’s if he’d been granted parole, which he hasnt, cos he ‘didnt repent his crimes’ something that recently was repealed under Russian law.
”But lets see what Sarah will do when she joins the Giant’s club. I doubt you’ll like that though…”
She’s sexy. I’d love to give her a good spank on the ass and tell her ”get up those stairs”! in the finest Irish tradition. Its a pity she opened her mouth about ‘ordinary, hard working people who love their guns and religion”. I mean thats not her exact words, but it was to that affect.
How can someone keep a straight face and say something like that?
You could have her up the stair if you are as sexy as she is. Otherwise you’ll need good life insurance
PS. Poor Leonid Ilyich (aka Brezhnev). He had never got such sincere and such long applauses in his life…
”She’s sexy. I’d love to give her a good spank on the ass and tell her ”get up those stairs”! in the finest Irish tradition.
You could have her up the stair if you are as sexy as she is. Otherwise you’ll need good life insurance”
Thats for sure. She’d take no prisoners. She is hot though, in a schoolteacher kind of sexy. She wouldnt handle the arse-spanking though I’d say as she’s one of these religious nuts. She’s not as hot though as the girl-cop who presents ‘’spakoino noche, malshii”! Russian women are a national treasure, it has to be said.
”PS. Poor Leonid Ilyich (aka Brezhnev). He had never got such sincere and such long applauses in his life…”
The cheer that went up when she mentioned ‘guns’ was deafening. I really found that very sad, and wonder how could so many people become so – I dunno – frightened-or what? – that they felt the need to raciously support the right for one to have deadly weapons.
Would you take your 5 months old baby to the football game or rock concert? This is what she did with her baby – took her to convention (as well as her small daughter) in the center of loud crazy crowd.
And then she called herself “proud mother”.
PS. looks to me that her husband learned this “take-no-prisoners” rule
”Would you take your 5 months old baby to the football game or rock concert? This is what she did with her baby – took her to convention (as well as her small daughter) in the center of loud crazy crowd.
And then she called herself “proud mother”.”
I didnt notice that, but I’m not suprised you did ivanov. To their credit, Russians are extraordinarily careful with children and its no coincidence you copped that one quickly. That was clearly a cheap vote-getting exercise, turning up with an infant at something like that. Its really pathetic actually.
”PS. looks to me that her husband learned this “take-no-prisoners” rule”
Yes. He’s totally whipped I’d say. You can see it in her eyes actually, she’d bury anyone who got in her way.
Tim,
Thanks for the explanation. I didn’t mean to say that Sarah was using Putin’s methods, but rather needed help to understand what Putin’s methods she didn’t use.
P.S. Sarah Palin is a lady, Putin is a cockroach and ‘ivanov’ is a fool.
Sigh. You guys get my blood pressure all up and such with your comments about Palin, making me want to waste all of Sean’s bandwidth to refute them. Then I remember by audience and realize it’s all futile.
I will say this, for those that may not be aware, the God and guns comment was in response to a comment Obama made to a group in San Francisco a few months back that basically said people in small towns cling to God and guns because they are frustrated. As someone from said demographic, it’s not about frustration, is about what makes life at least somewhat fulfilling, even if it is all false consciousness or what not.
I won’t even touch the God thing, but firearms are the most fun gadgets devised by man. Those who don’t like them think it’s all about the violence but are missing the big picture. It’s about the wonder of physics, and the mental discipline it takes to make a little bit of lead hit a target some distance away. The fact that they are also good for dealing with bad people, thereby relieving one of their dependence on the state, is just gravy. I think one of the reasons firearm ownership is more valued in the US is due to the fact that Americans generally have enough disposable income to make firearms a hobby instead of simply tools. And believe me, it takes a fair amount of money to feed these things, especially now with the cost of copper and lead.
Chris, now that I think of it, I think I was sort of mixing up my terms between collectivism and nationalization. I was thinking of Stalin’s first 5-year plan, which should have been called nationalization of agriculture. If discussing nationalization, then it is my understanding that it never really was all that successful in the USSR with respect to agriculture like it was with industry. This all means that we might possibly agree about something, which is really quite discomforting when you think about it.
“If discussing nationalization, then it is my understanding that it never really was all that successful in the USSR with respect to agriculture like it was with industry. This all means that we might possibly agree about something, which is really quite discomforting when you think about it.”
NOOO! The center does not hold! Time is out of joint! There is a great disturbance in the Force!!!
IIRC about half of agriculture in the late USSR was private (small-scale farming). Collectivized agriculture doesn’t seem to work very well historically speaking.
Palin is the gypsy lady who sits her children on the steps of the train station and teaches them to put their hands out and into others pockets.
Palin is Mao ‘ s Dragon Lady that spurs the uneducated from the fields to run to the city and burn the books and attempt to humiliate the professors.
Are your comparing the governor of Alaska (and village mayor) with the Governor of Russia?
I was asked to contrast what Palin did with what Putin did, not idly speculate about what Palin might do given the power which Putin wields.
I don’t really know the record here, but I suspect you would find things greatly improved in this respect from the Yeltsin period.
I wasn’t running a business in the Yeltsin period, so I don’t know the record either. But I do know that the way in which the tax laws are changed here and applied retrospectively only to certain companies is akin to a banana republic and not a supposedly economically mature country.
I wasn’t running a business in the Yeltsin period.
Obviously, since you are still alive or not in jail.
They are also good for dealing with good people…btw
I was. But I’m alive and free. But I would be fool to say it was good time. Well it was good for Khodorkovsky…