Ossetian Numbers Game
By Sean at 30 August, 2008, 6:10 pm
How many Ossetians died as the result of Georgia’s attack? The numbers have been a constant point of speculation over the last two weeks. In the immediate aftermath of the attack, Russia claimed 1,600-2,000 deaths. By 21 August the Financial Times was reporting that the Russians could only confirm 133 civilian deaths, though Boris Salmakov of the Russian prosecutor’s office warned that the number could climb. Human Rights Watch claimed that only 44 deaths based on an interview with a doctor from the main hospital in Tskhinvali. Nevertheless, the 133 remained the accepted number in the Western press.
Now that accepted number should be revised. According to Teimuraz Khugaev, head prosecutor for the South Ossetian government, the number now stands at 1,692 dead and about 1,500 wounded. However, he added that “Information about new burials come to us every day. It’s difficult for us to confirm all these figures.”
Time will tell if this number will stand or even be accepted.
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Well, when I read that 133 dead was the official tally (subject to revision, of course), I didn’t expect that the tally will not go over 200.
МОСКВА, 20 августа. /ИТАР-ТАСС/. Российские следователи зафиксировали гибель 133 жителей Южной Осетии в результате военной агрессии Грузии. Об этом заявил сегодня журналистам заместитель председателя Следственного комитета при прокуратуре РФ Борис Салмаксов.
“Зафиксировано 133 жертвы, после осмотра они были преданы захоронению”, – отметил он. Однако, подчеркнул представитель СКП, в республике “есть многочисленные захоронения, которые мы вскрывать не можем”. По его словам, тела погибших “хоронили прямо в садах и никто специальные холмики не делал”.
“Пояснить их /эти захоронения – прим ИТАР-ТАСС/ могут беженцы, но они еще не все допрошены”, – констатировал Салмаксов. “Сколько их? Возможно, цифра, которая есть, подойдет со временем”, – отметил он, добавив, что этим вопросом должны заняться местные органы власти.
http://www.itar-tass.com/level2.html?NewsID=12987808&PageNum=0
And of course, a much lower number than 133 deaths would have justified Russia’s military reaction. Russia’s actions were justified by Georgia’s attack, not by the number of deaths.
133 is also the number of dead given Russian intervention. In the absence of Russian intervention, what would it have been?
“I didn’t expect that the tally will not go over 200.”
What do you mean? The double negative confuses me.
there is one very related question – what numbers Georgians would claim.
On one side Saak would like to claim thousand and thousand victims of “russian ogression”. On the other side he is afraid of been accused by all sided. By pro-war that his blitzkrig was sucks turned in such a disaster. By anti-war – that his policy lead to such disaster.
Sorry Chris, the double negative was a mistake. I meant to write:
“I didn’t expect that the tally will go over 200.”
In other words, when I first red that ITAR-TASS release quoting official Russian Federation numbers I interpreted that saying that even the RF acknowledges that the initial estimates of over 1,500 dead was grossly inaccurate.
In any event, it was Georgia’s attack, not the number of deaths that justified Russia’s intervention.
Точные цифры всплывут не сразу. Надо просто подождать.
С грустью приходится признать справедливость фразы \”Одна смерть- трагедия, миллион – статистика\”.
About “numbers”.
September 1, 2004
Beslan, Ossetia.
From AP news, “Human Rights Watch says it received an official letter from Georgia’s Defense Ministry that acknowledges use of the M85 cluster munition near the Roki tunnel that connects South Ossetia with Russia”
The situation in Georgia could lead the Nato to a new Kosovo and the risk ov violation of human rghts is elevate. I think that, right now ,is still impossible to have a correct idea of the number of victims.
Official Interim Report on Number of Casualties
Civil Georgia, Tbilisi / 3 Sep.’08 / 17:26
The officially registered number of Georgian soldiers, who have died in the conflict, is 156 as of September 3, Givi Targamadze, a senior lawmaker from the ruling party, said.
Targamadze chairs a special parliamentary commission dealing with the issues of persons, who are missing as a result of the conflict.
He told lawmaker at a parliamentary session on September 3 that 13 personnel from the Ministry of Internal Affairs were also killed in the conflict.
Number of civilians killed is 69, MP Targamadze said.
14 soldiers are missing and at least three wounded Georgian servicemen are in hospital in Russia’s North Ossetian Republic. Targamadze, however, also pointed out that the number of Georgian servicemen in the Russian hospitals could be even higher, but it was not yet possible to verify that.
He pointed out that it was an interim report as the commission was continuing its work.
Davit Bakradze, the Parliamentary Chairman, has strongly denied that the authorities were hiding real information about the number of casualties.
“There are various speculations on the number of casualties, but that’s not a mater for speculations,” he told lawmakers. “This is very sensitive issue and we should be careful with it. We are not going to hide information about the number of casualties and everyone should know the names of those who have died in the conflict.”
MP Targamadze also said that total of 176 Georgians were released from the Tskhinvali police station and handed over to the Georgian side in an exchange process. 17 of them were Georgian soldiers, he said.
The Georgian side, he continued, handed over to the Russian side six servicemen and to the South Ossetian side 41 persons, including militiamen.
He has claimed that there was not a single civilian person among Ossetian detainees held by the Georgian side.
“They were either those people who were fighting with the arms in their hands, or those who were sent for reconnaissance missions,” MP Targamadze said. “Ten of them were those ethnic Ossetians who were convicted in Georgia and were in jail for various crimes.”
How could you! Israel invaded Lebanon because of TWO people (two soldiers kidnepped by Hesballah)!!!! And you are talking about dozens of people as if it is “no big deal”. That’s a typical double-standard talk. Shame on you.
Here’s the list of the 311 identified so far: http://www.osetinfo.ru/spisok
Something looks odd about their ages.
I translated part of the list.
1. Ataev Alan Muratovich. b. 1971. Died in the course of military action. Buried in the yard of his home.
2. Kelekhsaev Murzaba V. b. 1944. Shot by Georgian sniper. Buried in Tbet village.
3. Petoev Albert S. b. 1943. Killed by explosion of BM 21 Grad shell. Buried in Vladikavkaz.
…
9. Tadtaev Sergei Lvovich. b. 1972. Burned to death in automobile hit by Georgian tank. Buried in school no. 5.
10. Kozaev Sukiko A. b. 1940. Died from wounds obtained during bombardment of city. Buried in Itrapis village.
—-
30. Kharaszishvili Angelina Dmitrievna. b. 1974. Died during bombardment of city. Buried in Tbet village.
31. Chekhoev Abesalom V. b. 1967. Died during bombardment of city. Place of burial unknown.
32. Elbakieva Dina. b. 2005. Died during bombardment of city. Buried in Tbet village.
————-
49. Maldzigov Sevastii Stepanovich. b. 1965. KIlled by exploding BM 21 Grad shell. Buried in Vladikavkaz.
—————
57. Bitarov Uruszmag. b. 1950. Died during bombardment. Buried in Zguderskii cemetary.
———————
59. Dzhussoev Mair Zaurovich. b. 1971. Burned to death in automobile that had been covered in gasoline and ignited. Buried in Nagutin cemetary.
60. Dzhussoev Aslan Mairovich. 15 years old. Burned to death in automobile that had been covered in gasoline and ignited. Buried in Nagutin cemetary.
61. Dzhussoeva Dina. 14 years old. Burned to death in automobile that had been covered in gasoline and ignited. Buried in Nagutin cemetary.
————————–
85. Shanazarova Albina Chorshanbievna. 14 years old. Killed by Georgian sniper. Buried in Zguderskii cemetary.
———————————
98. Kisiev Ibragim Feliksovich. Killed during bombardment of Khetagurova village.
99. Doguzov Leonid Nikolaevich. Killed during bombardment of Satikar village.
——————–
122. Maldzigova Evgenia Nikolaevna. b. 1927. Killed by explosion of BM 21 Grad shell. Buried in Vladikavkaz.
—
128. Tedeev Vladimir Romanovich. b. 1948. Died from wounds obtained during bombardment of city. Buried in Kornis village.
129. Dzhioev Radion Zurabovich. b. 1984. Died from wounds obtained during bombardment of city. Buried in yard of his home.
—————————–
152. Dzhabieva Zemfira Chermenovna. b. 1952. Died in course of military action. Place of burial unknown.
——————–
177. Ikaev Valerii Vladimirovich. b. 1958. Killed by sniper during the evacuation of Zarskoi Road.
——————–
182. Lalievna Valentina Sergeevna. b. 1940. Killed by sniper during the evacuation of Zarskoi Road.
—–
209. Kadzhaeva Elina Kazbekovna. b. 1986. Wounded during shelling of her home. Burned to death. Buried in Vladikavkaz.
—-
214. Galoeva Larisa Valikoevna. b. 1974. Killed by explosion of BM 21 Grad shell. Buried in Vladikazkaz.
——
238. Ikoeva Roza Viktorovna. b. 1936. Killed during bombardment of city. Buried in Tbet village.
———-
257. Bekoev Alan Tuzarovich. b. 1974. Killed by explosion of BM 21 Grad shell. Buried in yard of his home.
———–
270. Bagaeva Svetlana Georgievna. b. 1975. Killed when her automobile was fired upon. Buried in yard of her home.
—–
290. Tskhovrebov Sebastian B. b. 1937. Killed during bombardment of Tbet village.
—
311. Dzakhov Valerii Borisovich. b. 1987. Killed by Georgian sniper during military action. Buried in Tbet village.
Do you really belive,bombarding town with ten`s thousand people by “grad” artillery system in period some hours
will bring to 44 dead.There also was another kind of shelling air bombing,
street fightings.I think 1600-2000 wery
real. I wondering BBC journalists who made reportage at night 8.08.They showed
pictures of firing “GRAD”s and no one word its smelling by war criminal.