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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Avoiding this heap of memes&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/</link>
	<description>Russia Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow</description>
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		<title>By: Cyrill</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/comment-page-4/#comment-54400</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/#comment-54400</guid>
		<description>I think Idov&#039;s comparison with zastoi is not of substance but is more symbolic, more about the level of attitude. There is absolutely no question that both economically and culturally Russia is leaps and bounds beyond what zastoi was. Idov&#039;s comments to reflected what I also have noticed in my 5 (about a month each) trips there in the last 4 years: political and social apathy. There is very little discussion of politics among people that have not made their opposition a job. And when I did encounter politics, a lot was repeating cliches from the media or rumour mills.

Another component that links current Russia to zastoi a bit is the cavalier attitude to community and social responsibility, including blatant disregard for rules (expressed or just implied socially) and  even reason. On my first trip there an old friend picked me up in Pulkovo. We smoked in the car on the way and then I asked where the ashtray was. He told me to toss it out.  Instead, I did find the ashtray (full of ash but no butts)  and but out the cigarette there. Next thing he pulled the ashtray out and dumped it outside. Just a minor example I saw repeating over and over. Amount of trash surpasses even San Francisco&#039;s Market Street.

No matter that lots of us were kitchen dissidents during zastoi, in general, even more advanced and critical never ventured beyond ideology of left leaning social democrats. The West used to think (and still does now) that unanimity was/is a product of ballot rigging and fraud. It was born off ideological homogeneity and to me that is the cultural zastoi I see in contemporary Russia.  Pop-culture wise, Russia is  so hip, Any Warhol  отдыхает.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Idov&#8217;s comparison with zastoi is not of substance but is more symbolic, more about the level of attitude. There is absolutely no question that both economically and culturally Russia is leaps and bounds beyond what zastoi was. Idov&#8217;s comments to reflected what I also have noticed in my 5 (about a month each) trips there in the last 4 years: political and social apathy. There is very little discussion of politics among people that have not made their opposition a job. And when I did encounter politics, a lot was repeating cliches from the media or rumour mills.</p>
<p>Another component that links current Russia to zastoi a bit is the cavalier attitude to community and social responsibility, including blatant disregard for rules (expressed or just implied socially) and  even reason. On my first trip there an old friend picked me up in Pulkovo. We smoked in the car on the way and then I asked where the ashtray was. He told me to toss it out.  Instead, I did find the ashtray (full of ash but no butts)  and but out the cigarette there. Next thing he pulled the ashtray out and dumped it outside. Just a minor example I saw repeating over and over. Amount of trash surpasses even San Francisco&#8217;s Market Street.</p>
<p>No matter that lots of us were kitchen dissidents during zastoi, in general, even more advanced and critical never ventured beyond ideology of left leaning social democrats. The West used to think (and still does now) that unanimity was/is a product of ballot rigging and fraud. It was born off ideological homogeneity and to me that is the cultural zastoi I see in contemporary Russia.  Pop-culture wise, Russia is  so hip, Any Warhol  отдыхает.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/comment-page-4/#comment-54382</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/#comment-54382</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re just in time.  After a weekend of 90 degrees, its dropped to a pleasant 70 and will remain so for the rest of the week. Just how LA &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re just in time.  After a weekend of 90 degrees, its dropped to a pleasant 70 and will remain so for the rest of the week. Just how LA <i>should</i> be.</p>
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		<title>By: Chrisius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/comment-page-4/#comment-54381</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrisius Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/#comment-54381</guid>
		<description>Anyway I&#039;m off to pack to catch a plane to LA in a few hours. Given that I am flying over the North Pole, if my life were an Edgar Rice Burroughs novel, I would wind up transported through the immense polar aperture in the Hollow Earth to do battle with Reptile Men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyway I&#8217;m off to pack to catch a plane to LA in a few hours. Given that I am flying over the North Pole, if my life were an Edgar Rice Burroughs novel, I would wind up transported through the immense polar aperture in the Hollow Earth to do battle with Reptile Men.</p>
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		<title>By: Chrisius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/comment-page-4/#comment-54380</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrisius Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/#comment-54380</guid>
		<description>As I have yet to read the article :) , I am speaking broadly than about this particular case, but I think that by &quot;stagnation&quot; what many people really mean is &quot;the cultural consensus is not moving in the direction I want.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I have yet to read the article <img src='http://seansrussiablog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  , I am speaking broadly than about this particular case, but I think that by &#8220;stagnation&#8221; what many people really mean is &#8220;the cultural consensus is not moving in the direction I want.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/comment-page-4/#comment-54378</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/#comment-54378</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right, that quote was from a Jamestown article.  But what does &quot;culturally stagnant&quot; mean??

Russia has many vibrant cultural sectors:

&lt;b&gt;Music&lt;/b&gt; - including their own version of American Idol, political rapper Ka4
&lt;b&gt;Television&lt;/b&gt; - Nasha Russia; Dom 2, which is the longest running &quot;reality&quot; show in history; Soldaty, a kind-hearted, family series
&lt;b&gt;Radio&lt;/b&gt; - Echo Moskvy, better than many of our stations
&lt;b&gt;Internet&lt;/b&gt; - very active blogosphere
&lt;b&gt;Film&lt;/b&gt; - good pop movies like Zhara, Piter FM

What makes this all the more laughable is that &quot;culturally stagnant&quot; was written by a person who heads a hip/edgy/cutting/whatever magazine about Russian culture!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right, that quote was from a Jamestown article.  But what does &#8220;culturally stagnant&#8221; mean??</p>
<p>Russia has many vibrant cultural sectors:</p>
<p><b>Music</b> &#8211; including their own version of American Idol, political rapper Ka4<br />
<b>Television</b> &#8211; Nasha Russia; Dom 2, which is the longest running &#8220;reality&#8221; show in history; Soldaty, a kind-hearted, family series<br />
<b>Radio</b> &#8211; Echo Moskvy, better than many of our stations<br />
<b>Internet</b> &#8211; very active blogosphere<br />
<b>Film</b> &#8211; good pop movies like Zhara, Piter FM</p>
<p>What makes this all the more laughable is that &#8220;culturally stagnant&#8221; was written by a person who heads a hip/edgy/cutting/whatever magazine about Russian culture!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Kolya</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/comment-page-4/#comment-54367</link>
		<dc:creator>Kolya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/#comment-54367</guid>
		<description>Owen and others, once again, Idov makes it perfectly clear in his article that he&#039;s not writing about economic stagnation. He actually states that Russia&#039;s economy is booming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Owen and others, once again, Idov makes it perfectly clear in his article that he&#8217;s not writing about economic stagnation. He actually states that Russia&#8217;s economy is booming.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/comment-page-4/#comment-54362</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/#comment-54362</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s ridiculous to speak of zastoi (stagnation) at a time when the Russian economy is growing faster than most in the West. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Speeches about the well-being of the Soviet people were delivered from the tribunes and people resentfully listened to all of this at empty refrigerators in Soviet kitchens.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Anyone who has been to Russia recently knows that this is an absurd comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s ridiculous to speak of zastoi (stagnation) at a time when the Russian economy is growing faster than most in the West. </p>
<blockquote><p>Speeches about the well-being of the Soviet people were delivered from the tribunes and people resentfully listened to all of this at empty refrigerators in Soviet kitchens.</p></blockquote>
<p>Anyone who has been to Russia recently knows that this is an absurd comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: Chrisius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/comment-page-4/#comment-54271</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrisius Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/#comment-54271</guid>
		<description>Indeed, it is a cliche among radical liberals, like &quot;Bush is a fascist&quot; is among Western leftists.

Most Russians would consider equating the current period with the Brezhnev period to be a compliment to the former. It is widely considered to be a golden age.

Speaking of Leonid Ilych, I have a copy of his memoirs (actually Novaya Zemlya, Slovo o kommunistakh, and some other stuff). I wonder if he actually wrote them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, it is a cliche among radical liberals, like &#8220;Bush is a fascist&#8221; is among Western leftists.</p>
<p>Most Russians would consider equating the current period with the Brezhnev period to be a compliment to the former. It is widely considered to be a golden age.</p>
<p>Speaking of Leonid Ilych, I have a copy of his memoirs (actually Novaya Zemlya, Slovo o kommunistakh, and some other stuff). I wonder if he actually wrote them.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndon</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/comment-page-4/#comment-54259</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/#comment-54259</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;i&lt;/b&gt;vanov, I would like to join the chorus of thanks for the link to that hitchhiker&#039;s guide to the post-Soviet galaxy (and beyond).  His &lt;a href=&quot;http://hitch-hiker.livejournal.com/53572.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post on Transdniester&lt;/a&gt; is great, especially the photos (my favorite was &lt;a href=&quot;http://ljplus.ru//img/h/i/hitch_hiker/File-aa-1505.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt;).

As far as &quot;passing&quot; for Russian, I think the key to getting the accent down is learning the language before age 13-15 and using the language consistently.  After that age it is very hard to get the accent down and be able to &quot;pass&quot; in any conversation involving more than a few phrases; and there are some re-pats who have issues with recognizable accents because, even though they learned Russian at an early age, they un-learned the accent at some point during their lives in a non-Russian environment.  

By the way, it looks like Idov is not the only one for whom &lt;a href=&quot;http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2372969&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the zastoi comparison&lt;/a&gt; has contemporary resonance:

&lt;i&gt;The gap between the rhetoric and real life is now so great that it even seems to me bigger than in the Brezhnev times, when speeches about the well-being of the Soviet people were delivered from the tribunes and people resentfully listened to all of this at empty refrigerators in Soviet kitchens.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>i</b>vanov, I would like to join the chorus of thanks for the link to that hitchhiker&#8217;s guide to the post-Soviet galaxy (and beyond).  His <a href="http://hitch-hiker.livejournal.com/53572.html" rel="nofollow">post on Transdniester</a> is great, especially the photos (my favorite was <a href="http://ljplus.ru//img/h/i/hitch_hiker/File-aa-1505.jpg" rel="nofollow">this one</a>).</p>
<p>As far as &#8220;passing&#8221; for Russian, I think the key to getting the accent down is learning the language before age 13-15 and using the language consistently.  After that age it is very hard to get the accent down and be able to &#8220;pass&#8221; in any conversation involving more than a few phrases; and there are some re-pats who have issues with recognizable accents because, even though they learned Russian at an early age, they un-learned the accent at some point during their lives in a non-Russian environment.  </p>
<p>By the way, it looks like Idov is not the only one for whom <a href="http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2372969" rel="nofollow">the zastoi comparison</a> has contemporary resonance:</p>
<p><i>The gap between the rhetoric and real life is now so great that it even seems to me bigger than in the Brezhnev times, when speeches about the well-being of the Soviet people were delivered from the tribunes and people resentfully listened to all of this at empty refrigerators in Soviet kitchens.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Chrisius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/comment-page-4/#comment-53630</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrisius Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/04/07/avoiding-this-heap-of-memes/#comment-53630</guid>
		<description>&quot;Maybe not in an extended chat, but throwing out stock phrases in a short exchange perhaps?&quot;

Most salespeople in kiosks think I&#039;m a Serb, so my accent is pretty obviously nonnative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Maybe not in an extended chat, but throwing out stock phrases in a short exchange perhaps?&#8221;</p>
<p>Most salespeople in kiosks think I&#8217;m a Serb, so my accent is pretty obviously nonnative.</p>
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