Four hours and forty minutes. Two hours and six minutes of which were broadcast live on Russian TV. One thousand three hundred and sixty-four journalists. Over 100 questions from fifty-two reporters. Those are some heady stats. When the vozhd’ speaks, the media listens.
Putin appeared loose in his final showcase. Reuters described his performance as “mixed flirtatious banter with metaphors about snot and showed a gift for sarcastic brush-offs worthy of a stand-up comedian.” The snot references were to questions about his alleged hidden wealth and the hard man hours he put in as Prez. To the former he said that reports about his wealth were “rubbish . . . excavated from someone’s nose and then spread on those bits of paper”. To the latter, he said “Heads of state have no right to whine, or drool for any reason… If they are going to slobber and blow snot and say things are bad, bad, then that’s how it will be.”
One of my favorites was his response to Hillary Clinton saying he had no soul. “A state official must at least have brains,” he stuck back. Given how her Presidential bid is going, Putin might be on to something. He even gave a shout out to his “American partner” George W. Bush. “You have to make decisions that nobody else is in a position to make. They are not always pleasant decisions. It isn’t easy. Is it easy for George Bush? This is where the buck stops.” To questions asking him to guarantee the ruble’s stability he said, “What do you want? Do you want me to eat soil from a flower pot? Take a blood oath?” Jesus people, just because the man’s visage is hung all over Russia, doesn’t mean he’s God. Naive monarchism is so 19th century.
Indeed, Putin was not without humor or wit. Kommersant was even kind enough to pick out some of the his sure to be memorable aphorisms. Here’s the list.
“All these eight years I worked like a slave in a galley from morning to night.” (On his work as President)
“I don’t think that we need to sprinkle ashes on our heads and beat ourselves with chains to prove that everything is fine with us.” (On relations with Poland).
“Let them teach their own wives how to cook shchi!” (On international election monitors on the Russian presidential elections.)
“As we said during Soviet times: If you want to “bury” a person, you appoint him to agricultural work.” (On Dmitri Medvedev’s resolve and national projects)
“Don’t whine and blubber about every subject” (On the character of a president.)
“It’s not over until the fat lady sings.” (“Не говори гоп, пока не перепрыгнешь”) (On being named to the post of Prime Minister)
“What can a person without a visa say about Tchaikovsky’s music?” (On relations between Russia and the West)
“Everybody must hoe their area like Saint Francis, boom, boom, everyday.” (On the activities of ministers)
And if anyone can translate and explain the following to me, I’d appreciate it: “Как у нас в некоторых местах говорили, “шило в стенку и на боковую залечь”" (о возможности покинуть политику).
Putin wasn’t all just shits and giggles. He seemed annoyed at the repeated “third term” questions. Just take a look at the photo above. He looks like he’s reaching to rip someone’s heart from their chest.
I must say that it is quite a coincidence that murder and suicide have come up just as I’m going over documents on Komsomol gangs and suicides in the 1920s for my current diss chapter. I just thought I would share.
”First, I want to say that I disagree with GER’s generalization about Russian disregard of human life. We should not confuse the state’s indiference for such things with the individual people themselves.”
Fair enough Kolya. I am letting my disdain for the behaviour of the government carry into anger against the Russians in general, which is a bit unfair and innacurate.
For the curious, here is Wikipedia’s entry on suicide rates by nation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_rates
According to those figures, only Lithuania (Gold) and Belarus (Silver) were ahead of Russia (Bronze) in this competition. I wonder if there are any reliable (well, sort of reliable) statistics that go back one hundred as well as fifty years to see whether those figures shifted a lot. Was suicide a problem in the 1920s, Sean?
After a quick glance, it is interesting that places like GER’s Ireland, the UK, Canada, Australia, Iceland and Greece have BOTH low murder rates and fairly low suicide rates. Happy countries?
Why should I waste my time elaborating on my views of hegemony, class or Marxism for you, Tim? Especially when it’s clear all I’m going to get in return are insults and told I don’t know anything anyway.
You are making statements of fact which are simply not true, which can be a result of either deliberate lying or ignorance. I charitably assumed it was the latter. If you don’t want to waste your time justifying your erronous statements, then don’t.
Kolya,
I’m not being a smartass, but Ireland is definitely a fairly happy country(I live here), and I have been to Australia and they seem to be quite happy too) The quality of life there is very high indeed.
I believe you, Irishman! I have never been to Ireland, but would love to visit. I almost went there when during my hippie days–long time ago–I lived in England (primarily as a squatter in London) for a few months.
As to Australia, my brother-in-law and his family have been living right in the middle of it (Alice Springs) for about ten years now. They love it. He was going to try it for two years. But then, after living in Maryland (one of the states with the highest population density in the US) and working long hours in the heavily urbanized DC area, he (and his family) fell in love with the lifestyle of Alice Springs as well as with Australia in general. One day we’ll visit them.
Fair enough Kolya. I am letting my disdain for the behaviour of the government carry into anger against the Russians in general, which is a bit unfair and innacurate.
First, an apology for having responded to your generalization with my own, which was from the particulars of individuals I happen to have encountered and who, for all I know, may be my friends because we think alike. Whatever you or I may have experienced proves nothing about Russians generally. (Thanks Kolya.)
Nonetheless, I think it’s pretty obviously unlikely that Russians are less sensitive than “we” are to the fate of others. I understand how one could be misled into believing so. The existence of eXile’s venerable Death Porn column neatly illustrates one of them. Originally the column represented a kind of ex-pat shock/horror reaction to mid-90s Russian TV’s love of police film footage, the bloodier the better. Horrible stuff, but you can still see lots of it recycled today on cable TV in the west. There was an audience in Russia and there’s an audience here. Go figure.
As for the behaviour of the state – well, yes, that is a different matter. But it always leads to tit for tat historiography matching every alleged instance of Russian state tolerance for human tragedy with an example of US or western brutality. They bombed Grozny to bits and we bombed Baghdad. They gassed innocents in the theatre and failed to treat them afterwards, but we’ve left live ordinance and depleted uranium munitions littered across Afghanistan and Iraq for 8-year-olds to play with. Russians are killing themselves and each other in quantity. So are Americans. Their chess killer vs our high school massacres. Their Yukos. Our Enron. Etc. Etc.
No, in fairness FH and Kolya, I went too far, and I shouldnt have let that article get to me, but I did. I was just numb, and in the provinces of Ireland, such scale of murder is just incomprehensible. The papers would be on about for 100 years. I tied that in with Dubrovka and Beslan and Grozny, and in fairness ordinary Russians didnt cause that. But I do wish they would at least grumble a bit more about this stuff, and tie in incompetence at the top with the deaths that have occurred. In fact I shouldnt have read the article at all – I’m very sqeamish and never read it while in Moscow.
Indeed Kolya you’d be most welcome -and FH or CD or anyone else -to visit our fine country. Let me know if you’re coming and you’ll have a roof over your head here besplatno. Funny, I knew a girl from Dublin – filthy rich unlike me -who squated for more than a year in London and had the time of her life. Seems there’s loads of unused old houses full to the brim with Paddies, Brits, Yanks and every kind of foreigner. People get up and actually go to work from these squats! I thought it was very interesting.
Australia is amazing. I only spent a few days in Sydney, which Aussies consider their most difficult city, and it left London, Dublin and Moscow in the dust. Brilliant place. The big difference I think is that you dont have to put yourself into massive, life-long debt to have good life there (that is if you’re a poor chemist like me) In Ireland, you have to. I spent a year in NZ as well, and though a good country, I couldnt have stayed – its just too far and complicated to get home from, much worse than Australia.
Actually – I’m an Irishman, Irishman. Well, sort of. Brit-born but a proud Irish passport holder, courtesy of a Dublin mum (and a persistent devotion to the place). I’d move in a minute but my Russian wife — also an Eire passport holder of course — insists I tough it out in London for the cash to get the kid through Oxford (despite my own preference for Trinity). Six months to go.
We must stop this Irish invasion in the bud!
Hey, every time the IRA decided to blow up a pub, did the entirety of the Irish race don sackcloth and ashes, cradle their heads in the hands and call out, “we are vile! vile! human life had been trodden underfoot by our wretched seed! Woe! Woe!”?
Well Chris I’m afraid after that comment I wont be supporting your application for an Irish passport:-) But the vast majority of Paddies did not support what happened in the 70s and 80s, and are actually ashamed of it. Dark times indeed. And most certainly our state did not fighter-bomb parts of here or Britain, nor would not have had proper medical care outside something like Dubrovka. I dont think I’m wrong when I say that both our state and the Brits have a regard for human life that is light years ahead of that of the Russian government, and maybe the Yanks too. I re-qualify my statement; the Russian state are brutes, animals, like something from the middle ages. And I sincerely believe our governments here would not behave in such a brutal manner, faced with the same grief.
FH – funny that!) My missus(tozhe Russkaya) wants ours to go to TCD in Dublin. I’ve tried to explain to her not to expect too much from my side of the gene pool, but she reckons her input alone should be enough for them to get into TCD)In fairness you are a Paddy, do you come over often? I’ve often thought about heading back to Moscow, and its a quandry facing quite a few Russians who live here – is it worth going back. Its hard to know. I’m not sure I could live without hurling(the sport, not puking!)
Does Ireland even have fighter-bombers to bomb things with?
In addition to the IRA, I would like to note that Ireland has yet to make a public apology for the existence of Bono; in fact, Ireland has yet to do anything to even try to rein him in. Sinead O’Connor is no compensation. I rest my case.
”Does Ireland even have fighter-bombers to bomb things with?”
Details, Chris, details:-)
‘Tis not a detail! Ireland has no fighter-bombers to bomb things with because Ireland is an island with no enemies. (Unless you count Britain.) There are no external threats to the integrity of Ireland.
Wait and see what happens once an external threat arises.
I did not even know Boyzone was Irish. The list of crimes climbs ever higher! Joyce was right — Ireland truly is a forsaken land!
Several years ago I met a young woman (Irish mother, Russian father) whose mother had had Irish-Soviet citizenship. I didn’t know that was even possible.
”Tis not a detail! Ireland has no fighter-bombers to bomb things with because Ireland is an island with no enemies. (Unless you count Britain.) There are no external threats to the integrity of Ireland.
Wait and see what happens once an external threat arises.”
No Chris. We are neither the USA nor Russia, and I dont believe for a second, even if we had the gear, that we would act with such brutality, especially to our own people. We would have informed the medical staff outside if we’d had a Dubrovka, for example. And the Yanks would have as well. No, the Russian goverment are brutes, have scant regard for the safety of their own citizens, and nothing will convince me otherwise. And Britain isnt our foe anymore – we beat them in 1921:-)
”Several years ago I met a young woman (Irish mother, Russian father) whose mother had had Irish-Soviet citizenship. I didn’t know that was even possible”
I didnt either! I see an episode of zhdi menya years ago where an Irish communist who lived in Moscow was reunited with a Russian woman he’d fell in love with during WWII. He’d spent all his adult life in the USSR/Russia and still had our accent. I dont think Ireland had any special relationship with the Soviets, though they allegedly wanted to supply guns and weapons to the IRA in the 70s/80s. I dont think it ever happened though. Of course our Labour party did spend plenty of time in Moscow, which was well publicised here.
More Irish crimes: Colin Farrell. The Corrs. Riverdance. The list goes on!
“We are neither the USA nor Russia, and I dont believe for a second, even if we had the gear, that we would act with such brutality, especially to our own people.”
That’s what everybody says, until they do. Cf. a certain country that was the center of world intellectual civilization, science, philosophy, art, and culture before a certain Austrian guy with a moustache showed up.
The girl’s father had been some kind of correspondent with the Soviet press, Pravda I think, in Dublin.
Re Ireland’s air force — it’s so small they call it an air corps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Defence_Forces#Air_Corps
The budget could get lost under Misc. in what Deripaska declares for tax purposes.
I’m liking the place more and more.
But this list of “artistes” you’re compiling together poses strategic risks. One more boy band and intelligent people world-wide might define them as WMD.
I try to get at least to Dublin once or twice a year, but I’m well overdue on that at the moment. My dad (a Welshman alas) went to TCD and I’ve spent a lot of time there and at his old haunts (ie, I didn’t get to know him very well when he was alive). I’ll drop a note into a future thread when I’m planning another trip.
Regarding the IRA I’ve never fully understood the attitude in the south. We lived in Belfast for some time when I was a kid, before things started blowing up and before the Old IRA split into the officials and the provos, etc. But even then my mother’s family in the South never talked about this stuff, and still don’t. My grandfather was involved at some vague level in the Twenties, and you can guess how much an 8-year-old would want to hear about that! But they never talked.
Re Russian re-pats: We go back to Russia a lot, but my wife would never want to return permanently. I love the place. She doesn’t.
One more thing — could we NOT say anything unkind here about Andrea Corr please? Or Sinead for that matter? (Saying she’s loony probably doesn’t count, right?)
Ger, thanks for the kind invite! This weekend my cousin (who is really torn on the question whether to go back to Russia or settle in the US) and his teenage son are driving up from Long Island to our place in Vermont. There is some good skiing not far from our home. After their visit we are free, so, Ger, my wife, daughter and I will hop on the plane and stay with you in Ireland for a few days. Thanks!
Joking, joking. Don’t worry. Some day we’ll visit Ireland. Well, that’s truly my hope. But it will not happen soon–at least not in 2008.
It’s interesting that so many non-Irish have genuine feelings of warm good will towards Ireland.
[Shouldn't Sean change the name of this blog to "Sean's Ireland (and occasionally Russia) Blog"?]
As for the IRA, the problem is people took sides in the civil war, and there are still families who dont talk to each other over it, and even within families themselves brothers/sisters not speaking to each other for years and years. Even in my own house, my old fella is pro De Valera, whilst I’m in favour of Collins. As for the modern IRA, people were just afraid of them – fuck with them and they’d get you, Irish or otherwise. They made the Chechens look like amateurs. There were safe houses all over the South, but if you spoke out, you could get a hiding yourself. I have always detested the IRA, indeed most people my age have, and our police now have astoundingly draconian powers to arrest any dissidents – possession of leaflets is even enough. It looks like the country has finally moved on. Thank God.
”Re Russian re-pats: We go back to Russia a lot, but my wife would never want to return permanently. I love the place. She doesn’t.”
Its the same for me. Mind you, I’m wondering now if I’d be able for Moscow anymore – life is much more relaxing here. Moscow wears down the soul, well mine anyway. Its probably cos I’m a villager here, big-city people probably arent upset by it.
I’m with you on Sinead – in fact on her day she’s one of the best looking women in the world I believe, and a match for any Russian. Sadly she doesnt have too many of those days! Andrea Corr I saw once – she was at our local HMV releasing a new album and spent all her time taking the piss out of her sisters in front of everyone -am not sure she’s the nicest in the world. But she IS easy on the eye!) I love TCD, even though I wasnt within an asses roar of getting the grades to attend there. The whole atmosphere there and the pubs around it are just cool. Its a special place.
Kolya, I said you’re more than welcome and you are:-) I’m not unique in that – the Irish always have open doors, its just something bred into us. I cant count the number of times when as a starving student in the Midlands I was fed by kind classmates mothers. During the summer last year, my sister and her husband picked up two German hitchikers, brought them home, fed them, gave them a bed and brought them to the train station next morning. This behaviour is totally normal in Ireland – not in the least bit unusual. And in fairness the Russians arent bad either. How many times I practically needed wheelchair assistance to leave Russian flats after stupendous meals. Russians would empty the flat of every morsel to feed guests. You live in Vermont? Very nice. Every time I hear it mentioned on tv or in film there’s usually a reference to its beauty.
”It’s interesting that so many non-Irish have genuine feelings of warm good will towards Ireland.”
I think its our relaxed attitude and ability to talk (too much?) to anyone. And culturally the country has punched far above its weight internationally. I’ve been to the Moscow Paddy’s Day parade several times and what amazed me is how the Russians bought into the whole thing. Drinking Guinness and having parties, just like us. Fantastic stuff. And bizarrely, I once heard on the radio in New Zealand, quite randomly, a presenter say in reference to some music he was playing ”The Russians, like the Irish, are prone to melancholy, and to partying”:-)
Even in my own house, my old fella is pro De Valera, whilst I’m in favour of Collins.
Yeah, I’ve a feeling there’s something like that going on amongst my relatives. Old divisions long suppresed and an eagerness to keep em that way.
Provos (and their Ulster counterparts) were just mobsters. When I lived in the states, I was forever being wierded out by ordinary folks who proudly gave money to them. Has anyone ever tried to do an accounting on how much American dosh wound up in Army hands (or Canadian dosh in UDA hands)?
Moscow really is stressful, I agree.
(That comment is intended to soothe Kolya’s worries about us running off at the mouth about Ireland too much.
We could consider adopting it as a permanent disclosure note for all non-Russia discussion. Like Slate with its “Disclosure: Slate is owned by the Washington Post Co.”)
Kolya, I knew that site and its “statistics”
It is as “accurate” as Soviet one. And I’m nut surprised at all that you mentioned it
“There are many sources in which you can find this sort of info. A site with plenty of interesting statistical information is NationMaster. Here is their link for the murder rates:”
In fact the very first comment to it – from Columbia – shows my point. 61 by NationMaster against 39 by Columbian criminal expert.
“Wilson Barón Calderón
27th March 2006
This figures are not updated, because Colombia has 18.111 homicides last year (2005), which means 39 per 100.000 inhabitants.
I`m the Head of Criminological Investigation Center of Judicial Police, the office in charge of prepare all about criminal reports in Colombia.
If you want, I can send the Colombian Crime report 2005, so you can update all your figures about my country.”
Ger, I know you mean it. Thanks again.
Although this is so often repeated that by now it’s a stereotype, it’s interesting how often visitors to Russia remark about the contrast between the severe and dour “street face” of Russians with their warm, cheerful and welcoming “home face”.
Unfortunately too many travelers don’t get to see Russians in the privacy of their homes, so they only experience the unfriendly “street face”. Well, I’m talking about pre-Putin Russia, maybe the streets are a warmer place now.
Ivanov, the whole point of my comment is that even though the murder rate in the US is much too high, the murder rate in Russia is substantially higher. If you don’t want to believe that, well, don’t believe it.
According to a Russian government agency (Федеральная служба государственной статистики), in 2006 the murder rate in Russia was 20.2 (because of rounding this is actually a tiny bit higher than the NationaMasters figure). The 2006 US rate is 4.3, and the rate for Ireland is a low 0.95 (all this figures are for 100,000 people per year).
I guess you don’t trust the numbers of this agency, but here is the link just in case (very last line of the table):
http://www.gks.ru/bgd/regl/b07_13/IssWWW.exe/Stg/d01/04-27.htm
Their numbers say that in 1995 the rate was 30.8. Didn’t find any numbers between 96 and 99, but by 2,000 the rate went down to 28.2, it started to rise again and it was 30.7 in 2002, then it started to go down and it was 20.2 in 2006.
Once again, though, the main point is that the murder rate in Russia is considerably higher than the American one, and the American murder rate is much higher than the Irish one.
Kolya: [Shouldn’t Sean change the name of this blog to “Sean’s Ireland (and occasionally Russia) Blog”?]
A joke, I know, but I have wondered at times. We are, some of us, stunningly insensitive to what our host here actually writes. Sean is — umm, flattery alert: the overly sensitive should look away now — without question one of the brightest observers of the Russia scene, and not just in the blogosphere. The piece way up there at the top of this thread is a fine bit of journalism. And here Ger and I are discussing the Republic of Ireland air corps — two planes and some choppers — and college pubs in Dublin. I’m half expecting Robert Harneis to segue to Kosovo any minute now. In fact, he’d have me well beat for relevance.
I’m going to reform. Moving to the Kagarlistky item as of now to discuss the Russian labor movement. My Welsh grandfather was a labor leader in coal pits. Oops.
Columbians have no respect for human life! Arrest the murderous monster Shakira!
“As for the IRA, the problem is people took sides in the civil war, and there are still families who dont talk to each other over it, and even within families themselves brothers/sisters not speaking to each other for years and years.”
You think just maybe something like this might be the reason for Russians’ conflicted views on Stalin?
You think just maybe something like this might be the reason for Russians’ conflicted views on Stalin?
Of course. Everyone WAS compromised. That’s why rule of law and an independent (and competent, an adjective seldom mentioned) judiciary are so important now.
What’s your reasoning as to cause and effect there, fh? I’m not sure what your line of thought is.
Indeed Chris you’re probably correct in the comparison of effect with Ireland and the USSR, but the causes were a bit different. Certainly nobody talks about this stuff really even now and I’ve had blazing rows with my old fella over it (De Valera sent condolences to Nazi Germany when Hitler died, a fact I and many Irish people simply cannot forgive him for). We also believe he caused Collins’ death. The causes were simply people on different sides in the Civil War. Like Stalin’s USSR though, this was used at a local level to sort out petty differences e.g. a cuckold killing his wife’s lover in the name of the War, or fighting over a bit of land. You might try and see ‘The Wind That Shakes The Barley’, a Pamme D’Or winning film that whilst over-the-top in its anti-Brit tone, does I think accurately reflect the kind of divisions in Ireland at the time.
FH -your comments about our, ahem, ‘air force’ are hilarious. I wish we’d buy a few MiGs and Sukhois on the cheap from Russia, not to attack Portadown, but just to feel good about ourselves)
Kolya -the ”face like a spanked arse” effect prevalent in many Muscovites is a function of ‘big city’ as much as anything else. But it is a great shame that many dont see the inside of a Russian flat and experience the warmth there, which is special.
Indeed, I’m still baffled at the Russian government attitude towards tourism. Yes, I know, its hard for Russians to come west too, but that’s not the point. Russia could make an absolute fortune from tourism if it scrapped even just the priglasheniye step. How many tourists have bypassed Moscow and went to Prague or Budapest instead cos of visa bullshit? I cant count the number of people who have said to me ‘I’d love to visit Russia’ and never do because they think visas, quite rightly, are just a pain in the arse. When Ireland had nothing it made a massive effort to get tourists here and still makes an absolute fortune from them. Russia could do the same but chooses not to. Baffling.
The German side of my family never talks about the Nazizeit, unless they’re drunk. You would think they were in a group coma from 1933-1945. I would barely know anything if it weren’t for my greataunt.
Ger, what I called the Russian “street face” (which includes a certain brusqueness of manner) is not only a result of big city life. I have not noticed this as much in, say, New York or London. And well traveled people visiting Russia for the first time often remark upon it. And it is not that Russians are unfriendly, as anyone who has experienced the warm hospitality of Russians at home can attest. It is as if they don a special defensive armor when they hit the streets. Yes, all city dwellers do that to a certain extent, but in Russia it is a much thicker armor. Well, maybe things are more relaxed now–I would certainly be pleased if that is the case.
What’s your reasoning as to cause and effect there, fh? I’m not sure what your line of thought is.
I’m thinking of those who pointed fingers at others for fear they’d be ratted out themselves.
I like the “spanked arse” simile.
It’s still visible in Moscow. It might be a big-city thing. But I don’t think so. It’s especially visible to Americans because they are the exact opposite — social smiling is the accepted norm. You find a range of postures in various places around the world. Brits adopt a neutral and non-committal look. Italians look straight at you with interest. The French avoid eye contact (but check out what you’re wearing). I find Russians and Americans at either extreme on the spectrum. Nothing to do with genuine feeling or emotion. It’s just customary behaviour.
The German side of my family never talks about the Nazizeit, unless they’re drunk.
That’s another forbidden conversational area amongst some of my older Irish relatives, maybe because they were on the wrong side. As Ger says, neutral Ireland didn’t act all that neutral sometimes. Come to think of it — and I really hadn’t considered it before — 1939 is when my mum and several of her relatives moved to the UK and it wasn’t until the 1950s that she started going back to Dublin again. She certainly never discussed it, but I wonder if there was a family ruckus over the whole thing.
Chris – re What’s your reasoning as to cause and effect there, fh? I’m not sure what your line of thought is.
I’m thinking of those who pointed fingers at others for fear they’d be ratted out themselves.
Sorry. On reflection I probably misunderstood you in the first place. You’re thinking was that the Troubles-generation Irish probably don’t talk about their divided past because they don’t want to revisit old squabbles, often amongst relatives. And you think that’s comparable to Russians’ conflicted views about Stalin.
My own reaction was that they were possibly comparable but only insofar as there is guilt and shame involved. Both in the earlier period and in the 70s and 80s, people were being manipulated, turned against one another and betraying friends and relatives, and killed if felt to be helping adversaries.
The Republican and Orange communities were being terrorized by these thugs, to maintain discipline, and each side had its informers and spies. Fear played a huge role. It wasn’t just a matter of eccentric Uncle Dermot being a little bit more radical than the rest of the family. They knee-capped and blew up and shot their own, and sat at the family dinner table afterwards. The terror was similar. I’m not sure much else was.
That’s what I was thinking about. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.