Comments on: Neither Purge nor Coup http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/ Russia Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:04:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Kolya http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/comment-page-2/#comment-36756 Kolya Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:37:42 +0000 http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/#comment-36756 I have no idea whether the substance of Astana's writings are interesting or not because I have not read his long comments. Astana, I know we all write in a hurry when online and my own grammar and style needs much improvement, but please be more considerate to your potential readers. If you want to be read by more of us, slow down a bit, use capitalizations, paragraph breaks, and all that old fashioned stuff that makes it easier to read. I have no idea whether the substance of Astana’s writings are interesting or not because I have not read his long comments.

Astana, I know we all write in a hurry when online and my own grammar and style needs much improvement, but please be more considerate to your potential readers. If you want to be read by more of us, slow down a bit, use capitalizations, paragraph breaks, and all that old fashioned stuff that makes it easier to read.

]]> By: Chrisius Maximus http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/comment-page-2/#comment-36708 Chrisius Maximus Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:13:20 +0000 http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/#comment-36708 I knew it was one of those! I knew it was one of those!

]]> By: astana.kz http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/comment-page-2/#comment-36705 astana.kz Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:35:26 +0000 http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/#comment-36705 .kz is the on-line country domain for kazakhstan. but u were tantalizingly close :-) .kz is the on-line country domain for kazakhstan. but u were tantalizingly close :-)

]]> By: Chrisius Maximus http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/comment-page-2/#comment-36704 Chrisius Maximus Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:01:07 +0000 http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/#comment-36704 Actually I think astana, although he/she could benefit from capitalization and paragraph breaks, is pretty much correct all the way down the line. .kz is Kyrgystan, isn't it? Actually I think astana, although he/she could benefit from capitalization and paragraph breaks, is pretty much correct all the way down the line.

.kz is Kyrgystan, isn’t it?

]]> By: astana.kz http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/comment-page-2/#comment-36699 astana.kz Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:33:34 +0000 http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/#comment-36699 u seem to be safe. i hope i'll be equally immune to ur early onset senile dementia u seem to be safe. i hope i’ll be equally immune to ur early onset senile dementia

]]> By: Candide http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/comment-page-2/#comment-36656 Candide Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:54:26 +0000 http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/#comment-36656 No cause for alarm, logorrhea is not contagious. No cause for alarm, logorrhea is not contagious.

]]> By: astana.kz http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/comment-page-2/#comment-36336 astana.kz Thu, 17 Jan 2008 04:04:18 +0000 http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/#comment-36336 noticed a couple of typos upon re-reading it after posting. so u've got to excuse me. my quick fingers always manage to get the better of me, darn them. there's just one typo that i can see that is nonsensical today's system in russia was built by putin, and were her (it should read, HE) to leave the political stage altogether, no one, to even an anointed successor, can step in and fill the vacuum right off the bat in his wake. noticed a couple of typos upon re-reading it after posting. so u’ve got to excuse me. my quick fingers always manage to get the better of me, darn them.

there’s just one typo that i can see that is nonsensical

today’s system in russia was built by putin, and were her (it should read, HE) to leave the political stage altogether, no one, to even an anointed successor, can step in and fill the vacuum right off the bat in his wake.

]]> By: astana.kz http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/comment-page-2/#comment-36331 astana.kz Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:54:55 +0000 http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/#comment-36331 robert, fully concur. he could not have built a full-blown western-style body politic in russia even if he wanted to, which i believe he did want to, at least in the beginning. however, consensus had been reached among the emerging new elite that russia could not be thrown head-on into the pool of democracy and expected to swim unassisted. they believed that a life preserver and other flotation devices would be needed to prevent russia's going straight to the bottom like a rock. thus the control of the media, thus the managed elections. has some of that been taken to ridiculous extremes? sure it has. as gogol used to say, fools and bad roads r russia's twin banes. and bureaucratic fools r a species apart. they r ad nauseam obsequious and always burning with the desire to please their superiors, taking sensible order from above and, more often than not, distorting them beyond any recognition and/or good sense. plus, i don't think putin had a detailed clear design of what he wanted russia to become by the end of his second term. he put it together on the go, sometimes haphazardly. if the result is a smorgasbord of conflicting ideas and ideals, it is a testament to the system's evolving to respond to the challenges of the now. he intentionally segmented the elite thad had jumped on his bandwagon to better control them, because in the absence of any institutionalized checks and balances - that had been sacrificed for stability early in his reign - that was the only way to concentrate and maintain power. many believe that the system was built around him as the supreme ruler and arbiter, and without him it is prone to collapse. i agree, but with a caveat: authority in russia has never been personal. in other words, power emanates from office, not from any individual who happens to hold that office at the time. there r exceptions, of course. lenin and stalin were such charismatic forceful personalities that they transcended institutions. as a result, during succession, power sharing and instability ensued. it took stalin 10 years to cement his hold on power (recall the so called congress of winners and murder of kirov). khrushev had to share power for 3 years before asserting himself fully at the cpsu XX congress. today's system in russia was built by putin, and were her to leave the political stage altogether, no one, to even an anointed successor, can step in and fill the vacuum right off the bat in his wake. it will take time, during which all the competing factions could sense the opportunity to make a grab for power, leading to instability (although coups or civil war seem highly unlikely, it's more science fiction than political analysis). however, instability is something the new system can ill afford. its legitimacy, much like in china’s, rests on its ability to bring prosperity and maintain stability. minus the stability, its credibility with the population at large will be shot. and if there is anything the elites learnt from the traumatic experience of the late 80s and 90s, it is that legitimacy once lost can never be recovered. that's why puin is staying on. and its speaks to the weakens of the system he beget that it requires his constant tending to strive. it's just nobody bothered to look that far ahead in 2000. more pressing concerns were monopolizing the political agenda. i'm sure the system will be overhauled now to make sure that the next succession does not require political acrobatics from the incumbent to guarantee a smooth transfer of power. so yes, the system is clearly deficient, and putin deserves blame for it, but the system is what it is, and he needs to do what needs to be done to make it work within its present configuration. whether the west likes it, is irrelevant. putin will not sacrifice stability to placate the west even if he very much wanted to, which he does not anyway. and there’s precious little, if anything, the west can do about it. so there, my two cents on the subject. robert, fully concur. he could not have built a full-blown western-style body politic in russia even if he wanted to, which i believe he did want to, at least in the beginning. however, consensus had been reached among the emerging new elite that russia could not be thrown head-on into the pool of democracy and expected to swim unassisted. they believed that a life preserver and other flotation devices would be needed to prevent russia’s going straight to the bottom like a rock. thus the control of the media, thus the managed elections. has some of that been taken to ridiculous extremes? sure it has. as gogol used to say, fools and bad roads r russia’s twin banes. and bureaucratic fools r a species apart. they r ad nauseam obsequious and always burning with the desire to please their superiors, taking sensible order from above and, more often than not, distorting them beyond any recognition and/or good sense. plus, i don’t think putin had a detailed clear design of what he wanted russia to become by the end of his second term. he put it together on the go, sometimes haphazardly. if the result is a smorgasbord of conflicting ideas and ideals, it is a testament to the system’s evolving to respond to the challenges of the now. he intentionally segmented the elite thad had jumped on his bandwagon to better control them, because in the absence of any institutionalized checks and balances – that had been sacrificed for stability early in his reign – that was the only way to concentrate and maintain power. many believe that the system was built around him as the supreme ruler and arbiter, and without him it is prone to collapse. i agree, but with a caveat: authority in russia has never been personal. in other words, power emanates from office, not from any individual who happens to hold that office at the time. there r exceptions, of course. lenin and stalin were such charismatic forceful personalities that they transcended institutions. as a result, during succession, power sharing and instability ensued. it took stalin 10 years to cement his hold on power (recall the so called congress of winners and murder of kirov). khrushev had to share power for 3 years before asserting himself fully at the cpsu XX congress. today’s system in russia was built by putin, and were her to leave the political stage altogether, no one, to even an anointed successor, can step in and fill the vacuum right off the bat in his wake. it will take time, during which all the competing factions could sense the opportunity to make a grab for power, leading to instability (although coups or civil war seem highly unlikely, it’s more science fiction than political analysis). however, instability is something the new system can ill afford. its legitimacy, much like in china’s, rests on its ability to bring prosperity and maintain stability. minus the stability, its credibility with the population at large will be shot. and if there is anything the elites learnt from the traumatic experience of the late 80s and 90s, it is that legitimacy once lost can never be recovered. that’s why puin is staying on. and its speaks to the weakens of the system he beget that it requires his constant tending to strive. it’s just nobody bothered to look that far ahead in 2000. more pressing concerns were monopolizing the political agenda. i’m sure the system will be overhauled now to make sure that the next succession does not require political acrobatics from the incumbent to guarantee a smooth transfer of power. so yes, the system is clearly deficient, and putin deserves blame for it, but the system is what it is, and he needs to do what needs to be done to make it work within its present configuration. whether the west likes it, is irrelevant. putin will not sacrifice stability to placate the west even if he very much wanted to, which he does not anyway. and there’s precious little, if anything, the west can do about it. so there, my two cents on the subject.

]]> By: robert harneis http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/comment-page-2/#comment-36171 robert harneis Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:46:22 +0000 http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/#comment-36171 "but his hand was forced by the state model he created" Astana.kz I agree with your analysis but it would be interesting to know whether you think that Putin has any choice in the model he created, given the dire circumstances he inherited. Statements by Western commentators that assume that he could have and ought to have turned Russia into a western european style democracy seem to me unrealistic. “but his hand was forced by the state model he created”

Astana.kz I agree with your analysis but it would be interesting to know whether you think that Putin has any choice in the model he created, given the dire circumstances he inherited. Statements by Western commentators that assume that he could have and ought to have turned Russia into a western european style democracy seem to me unrealistic.

]]> By: astana.kz http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/comment-page-2/#comment-36062 astana.kz Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:41:52 +0000 http://seansrussiablog.org/2008/01/09/niether-purge-nor-coup/#comment-36062 coherent grammar is in the eye of the beholder, as they say. coherent grammar is in the eye of the beholder, as they say.

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