“I’m Calling Ana . . .”

“Few people speak truth to power.”

When did she do this?

Shouldn’t this be “speak hysterical, unsourced hyperbole to power”?

I hate to say this, but whoever killed her must think the to-do is hilarious.

The appropriate word for all this might become, or might even be, “Dianafication”.

How many “awards”, prizes, articles “all over the world” did she get when she was alive?

So I can not compare her to Diana. In any way.

And yes – she paid the price. But who is getting “profit”?

So I can not compare her to Diana. In any way.

Dianafication refers to the public reaction to Diana’s demise, not Diana herself.

Annafication is not public really. She was not real public figure before death. And she is less public – after.
Her only “public” perception – “She was against Putin and she was killed for that”. Pure politics.

But as you know – this is not correct. There are much more really important “targets” – and all are alive.

One is not that far from you (in Chita) )

PS. have anyone heard anything about any protest in another case of killed journalist? I mentioned the case in Lugovoi’s thread.

And she is less public – after.

Either this is not true, or Sean’s post is pure fabrication.

Some links to a very extreme minority of English language written commentary, which critically reviewed her work as a journalist:

http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/8220-15.cfm

http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/2006-236-28.cfm

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@415.hloudXda4vL@.77480649/5807

Please inform of any other critical English language written reviews of her work. I can’t seem to locate any.

Is it easier to be a not so pro-Russian/pro-Putin journalist in Russia when compared to being a pro-Russian/pro-Putin journalist in America?

Was Politkovskaya more of a Russian reporter (as in reflecting mainstream Russian views), or one reflecting the views of Anglo-American media elites?

Is it easier to be a not so pro-Russian/pro-Putin journalist in Russia when compared to being a pro-Russian/pro-Putin journalist in America?

I’d be interested to know how many pro-Russian/pro-Putin journalists in America have received death threats, or wound up dead.

Was Politkovskaya more of a Russian reporter (as in reflecting mainstream Russian views), or one reflecting the views of Anglo-American media elites?

Based on what I’ve read of her work, neither. She was a Russian reporter reflecting a small minority of Russian views, which a lot in the west – rightly or wrongly – happened to agree with. I have seen nothing in her work which suggested she was merely reflecting the views of people in the west, and I think few would doubt that her concern for Russia and ordinary Russians was real.

“I’d be interested to know how many pro-Russian/pro-Putin journalists in America have received death threats, or wound up dead.”

****

They’re professionally dead. Either that or they mute their views. Granted, it’s a more preferable kind of dead over the other.

In the comparative sense, the problem of murdered journalists in Russia relates to an overall high death rate in that country. In Russia, a greater percentage die at a relatively young age and in road accidents. I suspect that job related murders is proportionately high in Russia. At least there seems to have been a good deal of articles about non-media Russian business people getting killed, with the possible motive being a relationship with their work. As is true with slain victims in other professions, journalists can get killed for reasons not having to do with their work. BTW, Paul Klebnikov was a pro-Putin/Russia journalist, who was killed in Moscow.

———————————————-

“I have seen nothing in her work which suggested she was merely reflecting the views of people in the west, and I think few would doubt that her concern for Russia and ordinary Russians was real.”

****

Among others including myself, the previosly linked Pankratov, Hellevig and Ware would suggestivley take issue with that. She wrote some rather unfair pieces which didn’t make her popular with a good number of Russians.

On how Russians view life, a few Russians and others had problems with this piece:

http://www.eurasianhome.org/xml/t/opinion.xml?lang=en&nic=opinion&pid=233

For obvious reasons, the journalist murdered for her work will get more media attention than the foreman who died in a work related argument.

This Russian government affilated venue is covering the anniversary of her murder:

http://www.russiatoday.ru/features/news/15221

With English as the lingua franca and RTTV available in Russia, one can’t dismiss that venue as being exclusively for an outside of Russia audience.

Something like 7% of Russians speak English. The only people in my office building, of hundreds, who speak English are the professional translators and the foreigners, of which there are about eight. English is not the lingua franca. The lingua franca is Russian.

Actually, I’d bet that more Russians read commentary from e.g. the Washington Post and many other Western outlets in translation on Inopressa and Inosmi than see RTTV’s English-language website or clips from RTTV on Youtube (and RTTV doesn’t put its clips on rutube!) or read the Moscow Times.

“Something like 7% of Russians speak English.”

****

Really? That percentage is no doubt growing.

———————————————-

“The lingua franca is Russian.”

In the former USSR for sure.

Thanks to Russia’s resurgence, Russian as a language might be gaining in popularity elsewhere. Some recent articles about Croatia and Bulgaria suggest such a tilt.

It’s expanding:

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,188866.shtml

It was a nice bash.

“Actually, I’d bet that more Russians read commentary from e.g. the Washington Post and many other Western outlets in translation on Inopressa and Inosmi than see RTTV’s English-language website or clips from RTTV on Youtube (and RTTV doesn’t put its clips on rutube!) or read the Moscow Times.”

Yep.

What’s rutube? I think I can guess.

Whoops, didn’t see you had linked to it.

The WP eh?

Better yet, on how a number of Russians get a dose of one sided journalism over how many Americans aren’t acquainted with the views running opposite The WP slant and that of other English language mass media venues.

Some professionally involved academics and journalists included.

Maybe Elton can write a song, and Tsereteli can make a statue?

I’m appalled at the condescending and casualk attitude that some people have with respect to Politkosvskaya’s murder. Whether we liked her work or not, she had more guts (and balls) than most of her male critics. And she was willing to stand for her convictions knowing fully well that sooner or later it may cost her life. Yes, she was only one of several journalists in Russia who ended up dead as a consequence of their writing. This, however, does not in any way diminish the significance of her death (as well as the death of other brave journalists).

A telling detail is that few of us were surprised that she was killed. Some of us were sad, others were indifferent, others even implied that she asked for it. Most of us, however, knew that there was a fairly good chance that she will end up being murdered.

Kolya.
Would you please give a number of “us”? So we (those who write/read in this blog) would see how many people asked you to represent their opinion.
I personally was surprised because she was so insignificant person by that time … but then I found what day it was. The rest – annafication – doesn’t surprised me at all.

One more question, Kolya. Can you name other “brave journalists” that were killed by “Putin regime”? Some guys in Paris counted 18. Could you name 5?

2 Tim.
Politkovskaya story has nothing to do with public. It’s dirty politics. And my opinion – she was killed for the only reason – to be used as “flag”. Because her “value” alive was close to zero. From political point. I assume you agree that it’s silly to talk about “moral” in political games. Rules (specific) – yes. But “moral” – lol.

Your question “I’d be interested to know how many pro-Russian/pro-Putin journalists in America…” is not correct.
It should be “anti-American journalist in America” if you want to compare with AP. I think.

“I have seen nothing in her work which suggested she was merely reflecting the views of people in the west, and I think few would doubt that her concern for Russia and ordinary Russians was real.”

Politkovskaya

And still one question to everyone – who is getting “profit” from her death?

oops… pressed wrong button.

2 Tim

“I have seen nothing in her work which suggested she was merely reflecting the views of people in the west, and I think few would doubt that her concern for Russia and ordinary Russians was real.”

I agree. I think she hated Russia. And reflected this in all her work. But only when she was allowed to do this as she had been ordinary Soviet journalist.
In fact she had never been “ordinary” Russian.
And she had US passport as well. But what a difference with Paul Khlebnikov’s work (

“In our culture, we usually honor the memory of the deceased by saying positive things about the departed in times of sorrow. One would like to show the same respect for Politkovskaya as well. But I cannot keep quiet when I see how her memory has been turned into a weapon …”

Jon Hellevig

Exactly! Weapon, not flag.

I will limit my comment to Ivanov only to a strong, appalled, angry, indignant objection to the assertion that she hated Russia. Even though I generally do not like parallels with the US, this is like what people said about American journalists who exposed war atrocities in VietNam. She didn’t hate Russia. She had a US passport because she was born there; but she chose not to live there.

She didn’t hate Russia and did not wish to harm Russia. In fact, much of her information came from Russian officers, who also did not hate Russia, but were appalled by what was happening and wanted it known and stopped — so they could be more proud of their country. That is perhaps stated in a higher tone than I like to use, but people like you seem to paint her as “destroying the reputation of the Russian army and Russia” — and you forget that it was Russian army soldiers and officers who were coming to her with information.

Уважаемая mab.

I understand your feelings.
But your feelings won’t change my o-p-i-n-i-o-n about Politkovskaya.
I don’t care about “destroyed reputation”. Politkovskaya impact on this matter was like mosquito bite for elephant. Why? Because those who believed in her stories about “honest officers” – they already “knew” that Russian army was …. well, I don’t have to repeat what you’ve heard many times.
But as I said – I don’t care. Although I know she was fabricating her stories – simply because I was officer by myself and she was not. So it was not that difficult to see when she was … let’s say extrapolating.
And as such – does it matter what percent of “truth” in her stories was – 10% or 90%?

I believe that there are facts and … the rest. And if a persons makes up his own “facts” even once – why should I believe him/her at all?

But as I said – I don’t care about this side of her character. She is “ordinary” journalist in this respect.

You said:
“She had a US passport because she was born there; but she chose not to live there.”

Did she get passport when she was born? Or did she choose to get it when she was living in Russia?
And you have to admit – she was not “ordinary” Russian.

Why I think that she hated Russia? Let’s say – this is my feeling. Like your feeling about her love to Russia.

And answer yourself my question – who got “profits” from her death?

PS. if you want to read more – I could give you a link to my thread in Russian … but I’m not sure about your feeling. Sorry.

Ivanov,

I assume you are not a stupid, so my guess is that you know what I meant by “us”. Just to make it clear, however, by “us” I meant all those who knew about her and her work. Personally, at times I found her over the top. But I also admired her passion and her courage. And no, I never considered her a hater of Russia.

You asked me: “Can you name other “brave journalists” that were killed by “Putin regime”?” Very interesting. I’m no fan of Putin, but in no place did I mention that the murdered journalists I had in mind were killed by “Putin’s regime.” Quite revealing of your state of mind.

Russia lost too many brave journalists during the last twelve years or so, from Listyev to Politkovskaya and many others in between. The point is that journalists in Russia know that if they consistently write about certain things they may end up dead. Whether they were killed by mafia thugs, Chechens, oligarchs, or government agents makes little difference. They were murdered and, as far as I know, the people responsible for the murder are almost never brought to justice.

In one of your first comments you asked: “How many “awards”, prizes, articles “all over the world” did she get when she was alive?”. I don’t know what was the point of your question, but the answer is that Politkovskaya received plenty of awards when she was alive. According to Wikipedia, while still alive she was awarded:

# 2001: Prize of the Russian Union of Journalists
# 2001: Amnesty International Global Award for Human Rights Journalism
# 2002: PEN American Center Freedom to Write Award
# 2002: International Women’s Media Foundation Courage in Journalism Award
# 2003: Lettre Ulysses Award
# 2003: Hermann Kesten Medal
# 2004: Olof Palme Prize
# 2005: Prize for the Freedom and Future of the Media

Kolya, I don’t have any interest to talk to unknown “us”. Neither I have any interest guessing how many of “us” asked YOU to talk here on their behalf.

So this is talk between two of us only.

You personal assumption that I’m not stupid – confirmed. I’m not.

And I also think that she was “over the top”. At old times knights made up stories about dragons – and people believed them. Remember? As we both know – they had never seen a single dragon.

About awards – just ONE from Russian Union of Journalists in 2001? Not impressive.
And total 8 in FIVE years?
In last year she got much more. Plus a square.

You said “Quite revealing of your state of mind.” Not really. It just showed that I knew your state of mind. Read your own words:
“Whether they were killed by mafia thugs, Chechens, oligarchs, or government agents makes little difference.”

First question – is it really LITTLE difference who killed and for what reason?

Second one – name journalists killed by government agents? Please.

“But I also admired her passion and her courage.”

I didn’t. I thought she was a tiresome fanatic and fantasist. I don’t admire the “bravery” of the fanatic.

Sort of like Noam Chomsky, if Chomsky didn’t bother to have facts backing anything he said up and was a about a billion times less intelligent.

“you forget that it was Russian army soldiers and officers who were coming to her with information.”

Were they? Or were they Politkovskaya’s ubiquitous “sources I won’t name”?

[mab] said:
“She had a US passport because she was born there; but she chose not to live there.”

[ivanov said:] Did she get passport when she was born? Or did she choose to get it when she was living in Russia?
And you have to admit – she was not “ordinary” Russian.

Politkovskaya was born in the US, so she had the right to receive a US passport at any time in her life. However, she didn’t get one until very late in her life, after apparently being poisoned while on her way to Beslan. In this respect, ivanov is right that she was not an “ordinary” Russian. Without wanting to stereotype, but recalling kakie byli vremena, I think it’s safe to say that in the 1990s an “ordinary” Russian who had both the right to receive a US passport and the skills and connections to adapt to life in the US would have at least strongly considered leaving Russia and might well have done so. Politkovskaya didn’t leave.

Your question “I’d be interested to know how many pro-Russian/pro-Putin journalists in America…” is not correct.
It should be “anti-American journalist in America” if you want to compare with AP. I think.

ivanov, read the whole thread (if you can stand to ). That wasn’t Tim’s phrase – Tim was quoting from Mr. Averko’s comment which implied that Averko is some sort of American Politkovskaya and has been rendered “professionally dead,” presumably by those evil Eng.lang.mASS media biases.

Without wanting to plunge down the rabbit hole of cross-cultural comparisons, there are plenty of journalists in the US who are regarded as “anti-American” by the conservative establishment, and I’m not aware of any who have been killed (professionally or otherwise) – some of the biggest scandalmongers, people like Bob Woodward and Sy Hersh, get the biggest exposure, book deals, etc. So I think “anti-American” journalists in America do just fine.

Ivanov, after reading your response on the “us” question, I’m now doubting both your intelligence as well as your decency. As to her “hating Russia”, it reminds me of the Stephen Colbert shtick of asking liberals in his show, “why do you hate America?”. Whether people liked her or not, she was a brave person who during her life received plenty of awards (although the number of awards she received is really irrelevant, in my opinion). Why did I say that it makes little difference whether it was Chechens, oligarchs, government thugs or mafia hit men who killed those journalists? The reason is simple, the environment in Russia now is such that a journalist who persistently writes about issues that some people find inconvenient risks being killed. In other words, such a journalist is at a considerable higher risk of being killed in Russia than his or her counterpart in Western Europe or the USA.

Lyndon is absolutely correct, “anti-American” journalists in the US do just fine. Not so “anti-Russian” journalists in Russia.

Okay, I will not waste any more of my time on this.

Lyndon Allin isn’t “absolutley correct”.

Anti-American wasn’t the originally stated issue. Having pro-Russian/pro-Putin sympathies versus not having that was the issue as per Englsh langauge mass media. Anti-American doesn’t necessarily mean pro-Russian/pro-Putin. It’s disingenuous to suggest differently.

Those defenders of Poklitkovskaya’s work don’t address the unfair to not so honest aspects of her journalism. Likewise, they don’t address the points raised in a post at this thread which linked the respective commentary of Pankratov, Hellevig and Ware. Those three used facts to back their views.

I’ve yet to see Mr. Allin successfully refute any of my valid criticisms about English language mass media. I’ve seen him distort what was communicated.

Pardon misspell.

“ivanov on October 7, 2007 9:14 pm ‘In our culture, we usually honor the memory of the deceased by saying positive things about the departed in times of sorrow. One would like to show the same respect for Politkovskaya as well. But I cannot keep quiet when I see how her memory has been turned into a weapon …’

Jon Hellevig

Exactly! Weapon, not flag.”

****

Unlike some other non-Russians in Russia and outside of it, Mr. Hellevig knows what he’s talking about.

An outstanding intellect.

Anti-American doesn’t necessarily mean pro-Russian/pro-Putin.

Of course it doesn’t. You might also note that pro-Russian doesn’t necessarily mean pro-Putin.

You should read more carefully, Mike. My point about “anti-American” journalists was in response to ivanov’s comment, which I quoted. I didn’t really give your “originally stated issue” about being a “pro-Russian/pro-Putin journalist in America” very much thought, except for my first impression that you seemed to be once again holding yourself up as some kind of martyr. If anything, I’d imagine a “pro-Russian/pro-Putin” journalist in America would be held back not by some anti-Russian conspiracy but rather by the relative indifference of American media consumers to all things foreign aside from Iraq. Although actually, given the power of the almighty dollar, there’s nothing holding back “pro-Russian/pro-Putin” writing from appearing as an insert in one of the pillars of Eng.lang.mASS-dom.

Mike, without wanting to be combative, may I ask whether you have ever read any of Politkovskaya’s books (at least a couple of them are available in English)? Or have you just read opinions about her work written by people you tend to generally agree with and decided that you agree with them on this issue as well?

As for Hellevig, he looks intriguing on his website (a tax lawyer/headhunter who also writes about Foucault and Wittgenstein?!), but he seems prone to what some might call flights of Politkovskayan fancy or outrage. This is from the second paragraph of his “obituary” about Politkovskaya (emphasis in original):

The television stations all over the Western world in unprecedented in times of peace propaganda have joined efforts with the oligopoly of Western mainstream printed press to lead the movement of solidarity with the killers and have stepped up pressure on the European Union leadership and the democratic institutions of the member states to join in. Like the true pioneer he always was Barroso does not need a lot of persuasion. European
Union Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso bathing in vampyric delight
in the blood, in the spirit of European hypocrisy, in the spirit of the common
values, says: “We have a problem with Russia. In fact, we have several problems.
Too many people have been killed and we don’t know who killed them.” But he is not
sincere, he knows the killers, they work for his propaganda team, he exploits the
murders for his political games, then it means that he is as guilty as those that
delivered him the blood.

Talk about “over the top.”

Most Russians look at Putin favorably. It therefore stands to reason that someone who is anti-Putin isn’t so pro-Russian, despite what they might say to the contrary. Like a certain academic who (on the BBC) said that Russians in his view state non-thinking insulting remarks about Ukrainians without also noting the reverse. Fortunately, both instances are a minority.

Contrary to your suggestion, there’re a good number of journalists out there covering the Russia beat for major American media outlets. There’s a general bias among them. You’re therefore mistaken if you really believe differently. It’s not uncommon for a given media outlet to employ people of like mind. As privately owned entities, establishment thinking folks like yourself say it’s the market at work. Well, the market at work in Russia doesn’t regard Politkovskaya in the same way as this gentleman and others:

http://markmackinnon.blogspot.com/2007/10/day-of-shame.html

The originally stated reason for RTTV’s creation has to do with the biases that you seemingly downplay, if not deny outright, while taking comparatively faulty nitpicking jabs at other outlets, offering a different and perfectly valid view.

What do you know of Barroso? Some of his views are dubious.

If anything, I’d imagine a “pro-Russian/pro-Putin” journalist in America would be held back not by some anti-Russian conspiracy but rather by the relative indifference of American media consumers to all things foreign aside from Iraq.—Lyndon

I might be tempted to believe this, except in my own observations “the relative indifference of the American media consumers to all things foreign aside from Iraq” has not seemed to hold back (or even slow down) the anti-Russian/anti-Putin journalist in America, who despite this apparent lack of interest in foreign matters on the part of the audience/media consumers, still seems to have very little trouble finding a venue to spew his venom.

“The reason is simple, the environment in Russia now is such that a journalist who persistently writes about issues that some people find inconvenient risks being killed.”

This has been the case for over 15 years. It is not the environment in Russia “now.”

Amruschik:

Consider who you’re answering.

He belittles the greater biases, while having an obsession with the “ICDISS” and the minority of Pridnestrovie’s Moldovans who desire using the Latin script.

Maybe he’ll get some love here:

http://edwardlucas.blogspot.com/2006/08/gotcha-reprised-from-european-voice.html

The in box is confidential. The below was just sent to me from someone who is relatively well known and respected by some people participtaing here:

“I agree with this and I wonder if the Russian government (or someone) would be willing to fund an outfit in the West dedicated to serious research and ‘propaganda’ to counter the anti-Russian BS.

Do you think this might be a possibility? If so who should be approached?”

****

This person received a very detailed reply.

“I might be tempted to believe this, except in my own observations “the relative indifference of the American media consumers to all things foreign aside from Iraq” has not seemed to hold back (or even slow down) the anti-Russian/anti-Putin journalist in America, who despite this apparent lack of interest in foreign matters on the part of the audience/media consumers, still seems to have very little trouble finding a venue to spew his venom.”

I think some of them are just paid to write that way. It’s supply-side journalism.

Buying a journalist is not hard you know.

“The in box is confidential. The below was just sent to me”

But nobody cares.

Yes they do.

They’re far more intelligent and earnest than yourself.

Kolya.
You forgot to name journalists killed by “government agents”.

Anna Politskovskaya practiced advocacy journalism, and from everything I’ve heard about her, she was a fanatic, the kind of person who made you feel bad if you wanted to relax Friday evening with a couple of beers while horrors were happening in the country. She reminds me of someone I worked with in the 90s who was a journalist and advocate for Russians who were refugees or forced migrants (including from Chechnya). After months of pulling strings and begging, she finally got an audience with Chernomyrdin to discuss better conditions for these returning Russians. The first thing she said at the meeting was something like “So when are you going to stop killing your fellow Russians?” As you can imagine, the meeting didn’t go well.

Of course I cannot say if her reporting on one or another incident was right. But everything I’ve heard from people who have been in Chechnya supports what she wrote. The most common criticism I’ve heard about her is that she was only covering one side of the story. That’s true, but that was her right — as it is the right of people covering US atrocities in Iraq to concentrate on that. Imagine for a moment that she was covering the US army in Iraq, what happened at Abu Ghraib, what Blackwater is doing, how the military is trying to cover up incidents and whitewash investigations, and making sweeping accusations about the leaders running the war, their underlying policies, their disregard for the law, and their amorality. She wouldn’t have written about it like Sy Hersh; she would have written about like Alexander Cockburn. Neither she nor Cockburn is to many people’s tastes, but I at least think that their voices are important and that they push forward – in uncomfortable ways – reporting and analysis of what our elected officials are doing and sanctioning in war zones. In both cases — what she reported and what US reporters are writing about Iraq — this is not the whole story. And in both cases it is damaging the reputation of our countries, being exaggerated, being manipulated, etc. But that’s the not the fault of the writers; it’s the fault of the people committing crimes.

He belittles the greater biases, while having an obsession with the “ICDISS” and the minority of Pridnestrovie’s Moldovans who desire using the Latin script.

Mike, my only “obsession” (which I’d describe as more like a healthy curiosity) is with people who fabricate things to advance their agenda, such as those who created “ICDISS” and trumpeted its fictional report. Your blind support for proven liars seriously undermines whatever credibility you might otherwise have.

You may wish to do eternal battle with the specter of “greater biases” (by which you seem to really mean “a bunch of people who don’t agree with me and who won’t publish me”), and I wish you luck in your adventures in shadow-boxing. Personally, I prefer to simply fact-check people who make things up. But I like your style – suggesting that whatever I write can just be dismissed out of hand is an excellent argumentation tactic. By the way, why haven’t you exulted in this space about the latest organization to cite your work?

Amruschik, what American journalist(s) would you name as being identifiably “anti-Putin/anti-Russian” (people for whom such leanings seem to be a primary or major motivator of much of their work)? I can think of a couple candidates you might name, but they are hardly front-line journalists and are more like academics or commentators writing op-eds (and there is a distinction). The sometimes lazy, sometimes sloppy western journalism about Russia (e.g., repeated stories about the same cultural phenomenon, with an orientalistic tinge) cannot be chalked up to “venom,” in my opinion, but rather simply to the laziness and sloppiness which may afflict journalists just as it does members of other professions. This is true of some opinion piece writers as well – it’s much easier when you’re on a deadline to just wave generally in the direction of the USSR than to pick apart “resurgent Russia’s” complex and often opaque motivations.

By the way, Mike, just to get back on-topic (not that anyone here seems to have an issue with off-topic…), you didn’t answer my question about Politkovskaya’s books. I guess I can assume you haven’t read them and are relying on the opinions of others to interpret them for you.

CM, forgot to reply — yes, she had real sources in the Russian military. Actually, a lot of information comes to human rights guys from the Russian military. There is, of course, a natural tendency to circle the wagons and save face (natural in the sense of done by every profession everywhere in the world), but are also people who want to see the crimes stopped and provide info to journalists and human rights orgs. They are sources not named without quotes because I assume they would be in danger if they went public.

“They are sources not named without quotes because I assume they would be in danger if they went public.”

Maybe. The alternative explanation is that they are fictional characters.

Or some of them are.

Radio Free Europe is paying tribute to Anna by hosting a symposium in Prague and Washington. See more at http://www.caseforfreedom.org

Yes, CM, I knew what you meant, hence my not named sources without quotes. I always say that unless you are there, see it, hear it, smell it, etc, you can’t say “that would never happen” or “no one does that.” But knowing what I do about Politkovskaya and the info hr guys get from the military in that region, I don’t think they are fictional — even some of them. If you don’t mind me asking — and I’m asking in a nice tone of voice — are you as critical?skeptical? about the guys writing about Blackwater as you are about Politkovskaya?

I barely know what Blackwater is. My knowledge of current US events is close to nonexistent. I didn’t know who Jon Stewart was until I visited the States back on Christmas.

It would depend on what they wrote, with which I am unfamiliar.

I completely dismissed Politkovskaya after her “the Dubrovka terrorists were really FSB agents!” period. The woman could be kind of kooky, and credulous (witness the story about the torture pits that didn’t exist; eventually she admitted she had just repeated what she heard someone tell her on the street IIRC).

To answer your question more broadly, having worked in the media for several years, I don’t believe anything anybody writes about anything. Especially when it has a politically and/or emotionally charged subject matter.

Well it seems that you’re an equal opportunity skeptic.

mab, add me to the list of “equal opportunity skeptics”

I haven’t been working for media, but I was serving several years in military. That’s why I can smell when Politkovskaya was lying.
If someone tells you that his/her sources in fast-food industry informed him/her that the best way to cook pirozhki c povidlom is … to boil them – would you smell that the source is not the cook as best. I guess – you would.

Anna Politskovskaya practiced advocacy journalism, and from everything I’ve heard about her, she was a fanatic,

Yes she was.
And do you remember this – the road to hell is paved with good wishes (aka “advocacy fanatics”)?

it is damaging the reputation of our countries, being exaggerated, being manipulated, etc. But that’s the not the fault of the writers; it’s the fault of the people committing crimes.

First of all – it is damaging brains (aka моск). The only difference – one soldier damages someone’s brains with bullet, journalist damages many “someone’s” brains with his/her “exaggeration”…

And I’m not sure whose fault is more dangerous.

Karl Marx (I hope you know this name) had never committed a crime. He was just writing books. Hitler also started from a book. Lenin didn’t shoot a single person – just left huge
pile of his books.

So – the word is the WMD. Very real one.

PS. I don’t think that fanatics are really brave ones.

And one last thing, уважаемая mab.
I can give a link to specific lie written by Politkovskaya. And you can smell it by yourself.
About death squadron’s soldier confession…

I don’t see why that letter is “proven” to be a lie. And as for bravery, I think Politkovskaya was extremely brave — unless you think her detention was a lie, too.

Lyndon, I’ve plenty of credibility unlike some of your displayed agendas. I welcome your criticisms of my more formal work (articles), which have been picked up by venues that others and yourself would no doubt pass off as acceptable.

As for “proven liars”, if I’m not mistaken, the ICDISS ran a report which has later been pretty much confirmed by more “credible” (as in constituting individuals from orgs., (like the EU, OSCE and UN). It’s therefore inaccurate to focus attention solely on the ICDISS, when more established others from the West confirm the same. When comparing respective histories and human rights conditions, Pridnestrovie blows away Kosovo in terms of legitimacy. You can’t duck that reality and the biases of orgs., like The NYT which champions Kosovo independence, while falsely suggesting Russia’s stand on disputed former Communist bloc territories is hypocritical.

I find it somewhat ironic how someone else at these threads has taken an openly negative view of journalists. I’m pleased to say that I don’t embody his stated description of a journalist. Once again, feel free to challenge my formally written material in a direct way.

As per your Politkovaskaya reference to me, it’s quite difficult reading some of her agenda driven and unfair rants. I’ve read them as have others. You choose to ignore the criticisms made by the likes of Pankratov, Hellevig and Ware. Needless to say (perhaps), but your excuse for the often times shitty English language mass media coverage is inexcusable.

…if I’m not mistaken, the ICDISS ran a report which has later been pretty much confirmed by more “credible” (as in constituting individuals from orgs., (like the EU, OSCE and UN).

You are mistaken (none of those organizations has expressed the view that the PMR “has already obtained statehood and merely lacks recognition of this fact,” which was the fabricated report’s conclusion), but that’s not even the point. The point about the ICDISS report is that it was a report of a conference that never took place, falsely suggesting the involvement of academics who were not involved with the project. There’s a reason that the entry for ICDISS in Wikipedia redirects to the entry on Astroturfing. Sorry to ignore your bit about Kosovo, but I’m not sure what it has to do with anything I wrote.

Mike, you welcome criticism, but I think your “formal” writing speaks for itself. I’ll just quote the first two paragraphs of your latest bit of “more formal work (article)” on the Tiraspol Times website:

A short lived American TV series, Jackass, was an “adult” version of the childhood game known as chicken. The latter exhibits such “bravery” as seeing who will be the last person off of the train tracks to an approaching train. The Jackass TV show and chicken game involve a warped sense of gratification which has a definite following among some.

International diplomacy has its own version of chicken. Some of the participants of this type aren’t always so willing to engage in such manner. It can often times be a matter of not having much choice in dealing with an “I dare you” challenge.

Well now we know the TTT doesn’t employ a copy editor.

Fortunately for them, it’s not someone with such poor Enlgish language skills as yourself.

Pardon the misspelling.

Lyndon:

You’re so full of shit. A number of well accepted journos. have periodically written in the same kind of prose.

You’re the one who is mistaken by repeatedly lingering back to one report from awhile ago, while ignoring the other reports and personal observations concerning civil society in Pridnestrovie.

Is is just me or is Averko’s statement – that ‘censorship’ of HIS pro-Russian views in America is more serious than actual censorship in Russia -is totally mad? Does he need his head examined? Guess its all about the cheese for Mike.

“IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 9:30 am Is is just me or is Averko’s statement – that ‘censorship’ of HIS pro-Russian views in America is more serious than actual censorship in Russia -is totally mad? Does he need his head examined? Guess its all about the cheese for Mike.”

***

GREAT CONTRIBUTION (not)

The troll strikes again in the form of a blithering idiot who wondered (in another post of his) why I don’t answer his emails.

Others besides myself feel the same about censorship in America. Russians and non-Russians alike, who are of a higher intelligence than the above quoted.

No, not at all Mike, my point is very simple – you arent being paid for your ‘views’, which you regard as being more serious than that of censorship/media control in Russia. Thats just bananas. Even more hilarious, you referred to MAB (Ochen priyatno, MAB)) as an ignorant individual, even though she’s fluent in Russian and lives there – whereas you havent a word of Russian and have never been there. Its just nuts!)

No trolling here Mike. I’ve been away a while and I notice even without me you’re cuasing grief.

“IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 9:47 am

No, not at all Mike, my point is very simple – you arent being paid for your ‘views’, which you regard as being more serious than that of censorship/media control in Russia. Thats just bananas. Even more hilarious, you referred to MAB (Ochen priyatno, MAB)) as an ignorant individual, even though she’s fluent in Russian and lives there – whereas you havent a word of Russian and have never been there. Its just nuts!)

No trolling here Mike. I’ve been away a while and I notice even without me you’re cuasing grief.”

****

Yes you’re trolling in addition to making an ass of yourself. I in fact have been paid, which therefore makes you a liar.

MAB displayed arrogant and ignorant manner which was detailed. I recently posted a comment from someone who is Russian, knows the language better than her, in addition to having a greater overall knowledge of the country when compared to MAB and yourself combined.

“Cuasing” is spelled as causing.

“Its just nuts!”

Bingo! Averko is quite clearly mentally ill and disassociated from reality, or at least somewhere along the border, living in a rich fantasy world. What you and I should really do is ignore him, hard as it may be at times. And hope he gets into therapy. He’s middle-aged for Christ’s sake — it may be too late for his ego-defense mechanisms to be altered and delusional worldview corrected, which is pretty sad when you think about it.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 9, 2007 10:31 am

‘Its just nuts!’

Bingo! Averko is quite clearly mentally ill and disassociated from reality, or at least somewhere along the border, living in a rich fantasy world. What you and I should really do is ignore him, hard as it may be at times. And hope he gets into therapy. He’s middle-aged for Christ’s sake — it may be too late for his ego-defense mechanisms to be altered and delusional worldview corrected, which is pretty sad when you think about it.”

***

Bingo! in addition to being a Machialavellian scumbag, the above quoted Chris Doss displays psychotic tendencies. In his late thirties, this “editor” has piss pot poor English language grammar skills and encourages crank like manner over a more academic discourse.

People displaying such wack like tendencies often feel that they’re the normal ones.

”I recently posted a comment from someone who is Russian, knows the language better than her, in addition to having a greater overall knowledge of the country when compared to MAB and yourself combined.”

Blah blah bullshit. Hot air as usual. Second hand opinions from unnamed and therefore unusable sources. MAB outwitted you and you resorted to your usual bullshit tactics. Go learn Russian, tongue-less one!

”I in fact have been paid, which therefore makes you a liar. ”

Which, in fact, makes you a propogandist. At last we find out that Averko is getting dosh for his rubbish. That clears up that then. By the way there should be a comma after ‘I’ in your above rant. Its all about the cash for Mike. I knew it all along. You cant possibly genuinely care about Russia when cash is your priority.

As for spelling, coming from you thats a bit rich, to say the least.

“As for spelling, coming from you thats a bit rich, to say the least.”

Ger, Ger! In proper English, that should be “coming from yourself”!

Chris,

is that correct? Its a new one for me, thanks. That earns you a pint when we meet up)

“IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 10:37 am

‘I recently posted a comment from someone who is Russian, knows the language better than her, in addition to having a greater overall knowledge of the country when compared to MAB and yourself combined.’

Blah blah bullshit. Hot air as usual. Second hand opinions from unnamed and therefore unusable sources. MAB outwitted you and you resorted to your usual bullshit tactics. Go learn Russian, tongue-less one!

‘I in fact have been paid, which therefore makes you a liar.’

Which, in fact, makes you a propogandist. At last we find out that Averko is getting dosh for his rubbish. That clears up that then. By the way there should be a comma after ‘I’ in your above rant. Its all about the cash for Mike. I knew it all along. You cant possibly genuinely care about Russia when cash is your priority.

As for spelling, coming from you thats a bit rich, to say the least.”

****

The hypocrite troll strikes again with poor grammar. Note how he’s lame when people he agrees with play the role of grammar Nazi.

In his twisted view, if I’m not paid, I’m unworthy. If I’m paid I’m a “propagandist” (spelled correctly).

Meantime, he has difficulty making worthy academic challenges to the points I raise.

In any event, no one is likely to pay him for his foolishly stated views.

He once again shows himself to be full of shit.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 9, 2007 10:40 am ‘As for spelling, coming from you thats a bit rich, to say the least.’

Ger, Ger! In proper English, that should be “coming from yourself”!

IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 10:43 am Chris,

is that correct? Its a new one for me, thanks. That earns you a pint when we meet up)”

****

Losers in love.

The two of them were probably never paid by a major news org.

Not likely in the future as well.

Mike, you can deny reality all you want — it is what the mentally ill do after all — but you are in fact quite clearly mentally ill. This is obvious to everyone. I further suspect that many people around you in your actual non-Internet existence, if any such exist, know this as well. You are socially ostracized, aren’t you? Something you likely attribute to your being on a higher plane than others, and thus the focus of their envy. Classic paranoid narcissism.

“is that correct? Its a new one for me, thanks. That earns you a pint when we meet up)”

It’s correct in the mind of Mike Averko! It’s one of his favorite misconstructions. Haven’t you noticed?

You’re in Moscow on New Yesr, right?

”In his twisted view, if I’m not paid, I’m unworthy. If I’m paid I’m a “propagandist” (spelled correctly).”

No this is in your mind, not mine. Your rant against ‘censorship’ is all about your getting a job, not any genuinely felt feelings. There’s no market for your nonsense.

”Note how he’s lame when people he agrees with play the role of grammar Nazi.”

Mike, I dont correct your spelling or grammar at all, except when you criticize mine. At the end of the day these are comments on blogs and thats all. And I dont claim to be a professional journalist; you do.

Chris,

I’m there in december definitely, dunno when, but we’re surely meeting up for a few jars. Actually I’d love Mike to come too but you know how he feels about Rus – he prefers armchair expertise!

Back in an hour, have to give an immunoassy class now.

Chris Doss:

You can repeat that all you want. You’re one fucked up dude. It seems like you might be attempting to pass your clear fault lines to someone else who (fortunately) isn’t fucked up like you.

The troll made a fool of himself in these exchanges:

http://www.siberianlight.net/2007/07/21/baltika-beer-in-britain/

“The two of them were probably never paid by a major news org.”

Interesting that in his fantasy world Mike has edited the fact that I used to work for the Russia Journal out of history. Hell, I edited an entire book of the damn thing.

Mike is now stuck with a quandary. This gives us a chance to see a psychological defense mechanism in action.

Mike has also (sort of) been published by the Russia Journal. Thus, if he denies that the Russia Journal is a major news organization, in order to denigrate me, this will fly in the face of his own narcissistic Weltanschauung, as it will denigrate his sense of self-importance. On the other hand, if he asserts that it is a major news organization, in order to salvage his own fantasy structure in which Averko Is a Man of Great Accomplishments, he will be “propping” me.

Oh whatever shall he do? Amateur psychologists, get your pads and pencils ready!

“IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 10:49 am
‘In his twisted view, if I’m not paid, I’m unworthy. If I’m paid I’m a ‘propagandist’ (spelled correctly).’

No this is in your mind, not mine. Your rant against ‘censorship’ is all about your getting a job, not any genuinely felt feelings. There’s no market for your nonsense.

‘Note how he’s lame when people he agrees with play the role of grammar Nazi.’

Mike, I dont correct your spelling or grammar at all, except when you criticize mine. At the end of the day these are comments on blogs and thats all. And I dont claim to be a professional journalist; you do.

IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 10:51 am
Chris,

I’m there in december definitely, dunno when, but we’re surely meeting up for a few jars. Actually I’d love Mike to come too but you know how he feels about Rus – he prefers armchair expertise!

Back in an hour, have to give an immunoassy class now.”

*****

Talk about fucked up. he displays the manner of a social misfit and then wants to have a meeting.

But I can legitimately say that I’m a professional. He can’t while showing little in terms of professional ability as a journalist.

Censorship does exist in the form I described. Others have relayed similar views. He has yet to substantively provide any evidence to the contrary.

Chris:

As someone with not so great English language skills, you were (so you claim) an editor there. What about any analysis of yours as opposed to editing? I recall your friend bad mouthing TRJ after he was canned (so some former employees have said off the record) by it.

What’s more impressive, being an editor at the once very active TRJ, or a BBC analyst appearance, with paid invites to some fairly major academic institutions? Never mind the other places where my analytical work (as opposed to being an editor of works) has appeared.

Let’s see if you can actually challenge any of my numerous analytical points instead of engaging in blatantly troll like manner.

Hi, Irishman. You forgot that I was arrogant in addition to ignorant, not to mention my inferior Russian language skills and poor knowledge of the country.

MA, have you never been to Russia?

“MA, have you never been to Russia?”

He claims he has, but has yet to supply any evidence to support the assertion.

It’s really quite funny.

“poor knowledge of the country.”

Mab, get ready to laugh — Mike thinks the Two-Headed Eagle is close to the heart of every Russian.

“mab on October 9, 2007 11:25 am
Hi, Irishman. You forgot that I was arrogant in addition to ignorant, not to mention my inferior Russian language skills and poor knowledge of the country.

MA, have you never been to Russia?”

****

You omitted your inaccurately negative comments about me and how I directly showed them to be such. Obviously, these are inconvenient points for you. Yes, I’ve been to Russia and other parts of the former USSR. I didn’t say you’ve inferior Russian language skills. Poor comprehension on your part. Much like your friend.

———————————————-

“Chrisius Maximus on October 9, 2007 11:32 am
‘MA, have you never been to Russia?’

He claims he has, but has yet to supply any evidence to support the assertion.

It’s really quite funny.

‘poor knowledge of the country.’

Mab, get ready to laugh — Mike thinks the Two-Headed Eagle is close to the heart of every Russian. ”

*****

You’ve yet to show great analytical skills concerning a number of FSU topics. The two headed eagle is back and being popularly utilized in Russia. Such is your dream world.

Averko,

you’re talking through your arse re the two-headed eagle. Time and again people with far more Russia experience than you do have said this and yet you dont seem to understand. You’re a bit thick really.
Tell us Mike, what academic institutions have paid you for appearances? And dont bother with the ‘its none of your business’ line. You brought it up.

”Hi, Irishman. You forgot that I was arrogant in addition to ignorant, not to mention my inferior Russian language skills and poor knowledge of the country.”

MAB, in Averkian logic, ones knowledge on Russia is inversely proportional to experience, language skills and time spent in Russia. So, by Mike’s logic – no Russian language, never having been there, etc -he’s an expert.
Hilarious and quite sad actually.

While someone is being selectively (hypocritically) singled out: MAB, what backgound do you have in Russian/Soviet History and International Affairs? Have you formally appeared anywhere (in writing or otherwise)?

A question which others have answered by the content of their posted comments.

“The two headed eagle is back and being popularly utilized in Russia. Such is your dream world.”

See Mab! He really and truly believes this! It’s comedy gold!

Have you fallen over laughing yet?

Averko,

your lack of any credible expertise is shown by:
(1) Stating Chechen War One was justified
(2) That pre-rev Russia was an academic paradise, courtesy of Tsar Nikolai II
(3)Banging on about the eagle, which, according to Averkian logic, is popular. The fact that its simply a state symbol goes over your head
(4) Telling Russian speakers and people living in Russia that you have more relevant expertise than they do
(5) Writing for crank organisations like the TTT and Serbianna
(6) Never having been published professionally in print media

“IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 12:06 pm
Averko,

you’re talking through your arse re the two-headed eagle. Time and again people with far more Russia experience than you do have said this and yet you dont seem to understand. You’re a bit thick really.
Tell us Mike, what academic institutions have paid you for appearances? And dont bother with the ‘its none of your business’ line. You brought it up.

‘Hi, Irishman. You forgot that I was arrogant in addition to ignorant, not to mention my inferior Russian language skills and poor knowledge of the country.’

MAB, in Averkian logic, ones knowledge on Russia is inversely proportional to experience, language skills and time spent in Russia. So, by Mike’s logic – no Russian language, never having been there, etc -he’s an expert.
Hilarious and quite sad actually.”

****

Troll, you’re obviously one very ****** dude with not much of a life. Your brief excursion from here might relate to your very sorry existence.

Keep LYING about my not being to Russia and the matter of my paid instances. You were the hypocritical schmuck who brought it up by asking about it. I’m not lying unlike yourself and I don’t have to divulge everything about myself to you.

People who live in a given country with knowledge of its language are often ignorant of its history. Plenty of proof to go around on that point.

———————————————-

“Chrisius Maximus on October 9, 2007 12:12 pm ‘The two headed eagle is back and being popularly utilized in Russia. Such is your dream world.’

See Mab! He really and truly believes this! It’s comedy gold!

Have you fallen over laughing yet?”

****

Are you that delusional? In the armed forces, government and sports instituions it has significantly gained in usage.

Mike,

I was gone because I was living at home in my parents village and had no internet connection. I had thought also that perhaps I was the cause of all the grief here, and was sorry for that. But since I’ve come back its plain to see that you’re continuously pissing everyone else off as well, so I’m not the cause. Take responsibility.

“IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 12:15 pm
Averko,

your lack of any credible expertise is shown by:
(1) Stating Chechen War One was justified
(2) That pre-rev Russia was an academic paradise, courtesy of Tsar Nikolai II
(3)Banging on about the eagle, which, according to Averkian logic, is popular. The fact that its simply a state symbol goes over your head
(4) Telling Russian speakers and people living in Russia that you have more relevant expertise than they do
(5) Writing for crank organisations like the TTT and Serbianna
(6) Never having been published professionally in print media”

****

Troll:

Unlike yourself, I firmly substantiated my previously stated views on such matter.

Unlike yourself, I’ve appeared at a number of other venues which would be considered mainstream.

A bit of what you wrote in the above is twisted like yourself.

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with the two sources you chose to mention. My last Serbianna column was picked up by Reuters.

“IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 12:19 pm Mike,

I was gone because I was living at home in my parents village and had no internet connection. I had thought also that perhaps I was the cause of all the grief here, and was sorry for that. But since I’ve come back its plain to see that you’re continuously pissing everyone else off as well, so I’m not the cause. Take responsibility”

****

Yes you’re “the cause,” although not the only one.

The above quoted from you is further evidence of your twisted state.

Pardon misspell in 12:17pm

Congratulations on the Reuters gig Mike. Genuinely.

You didnt substantiate any of the claims I made at all, nor explain how ‘Averkian’ logic gives you better knowledge of Russian media than MAB has, even though she speaks Russian and lives there.

“IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 12:26 pm Congratulations on the Reuters gig Mike. Genuinely.

You didnt substantiate any of the claims I made at all, nor explain how ‘Averkian’ logic gives you better knowledge of Russian media than MAB has, even though she speaks Russian and lives there.”

****

Oh yes I did. No need for me to repeat what was clearly stated.

Actually Chris was the one who referenced examples that conflicted with MAB’s questionable (put mildly) points about Russian media.

Not that he’s needed to confirm the obvious. Others far more prominent than him have done the same.

Mike,

”Oh yes I did. No need for me to repeat what was clearly stated.”

In your mind you substantiated. But not to anyone else. As long as you’re happy, I guess thats the main thing.

“In your mind you substantiated. But not to anyone else. As long as you’re happy, I guess thats the main thing.”

That’s the essence of mental disorder, really.

Yes others as well. People far more intelligent than yourself.

Keep thinking differently. It means nothing.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 9, 2007 12:35 pm “In your mind you substantiated. But not to anyone else. As long as you’re happy, I guess thats the main thing.”

That’s the essence of mental disorder, really.”

****

Which you display and appear to deny in a most bizaree way of seemingly transfering your very ****** up manner unto me.

That’s bizarre

Mike,
calm down. No need for language, please.

And lo, my brethren, I beheld in a vision a braying beast. It was the inchoate rage of the madman as he beat his head against the unforgiving walls of reality. Let us join hands and lower our heads in pity.

Wait a minute! I knew that Michael Averko does not live in Russia, but is it true that he actually never lived in Russia (except, perhaps, for a couple short trips) and does not even write in Russian? I’m rather new to this, so I don’t know. His English is rather peculiar and wooden, so I assumed that his primary language is Russian. By the way, by writing this I’m not claiming that I’m a better writer than him.

MAB, what backgound do you have in Russian/Soviet History and International Affairs? Have you formally appeared anywhere (in writing or otherwise)?

I have an academic background in Russian lang, lit and history. I graduated magna cum laude from Amherst College. I was field producer for a bunch of US tv stations (Frontline, Washington Media and others) and as far as I know, I’m the only American to co-produce tv public affairs shows on Russian tv. I’ve been an expert grand poobah on a bunch of tv and radio shows on culture, lanugage and health issues, both in Russia and the US. I’m co-author of a Russian-English dictionary. I’ve translated about a half dozen books, about 50 films, and about a million boring reports and articles. I’ve interpreted for folks like Nancy Reagan and Boris Yeltsin. I sometimes do master classes in translation in Russia, including for English teachers at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I write a lot on pop culture and travel in English and on a variety of subjects in Russian. I write a weekly column on language, culture and translation. What else? Oh, I write guidebooks, so if you want to know good restaurants, affordable hotels or weirdo museums, I’m your girl. (Go to the Krasnaya Presnya Museum and ask them to turn on the sound effects for the diorama of the 1905 street fighting.) I’ve had a parallel career in public health communication, which is why I go to places like Berezniki and spend time in provincial hospitals and clinics. So if hotels bore you, ask me about MDR TB in the CIS and Eastern Europe or reproductive health. I’m great fun at dinner parties. I can tell you all the statistics on STDs (sexually transmitted diseases) in Russia and ruin your sex life for the next five years.

“Wait a minute! I knew that Michael Averko does not live in Russia, but is it true that he actually never lived in Russia (except, perhaps, for a couple short trips) and does not even write in Russian? I’m rather new to this, so I don’t know. His English is rather peculiar and wooden, so I assumed that his primary language is Russian. By the way, by writing this I’m not claiming that I’m a better writer than him.”

But you are a better writer than he is.

No, Averko does not know the Russian language.

Mab, you’re not the person who wrote that book on Soviet rock music a year or so ago, are you?

Wait a second — you’re Michelle Berdy, aren’t you?

Yup, only one “l” please. And most people call me Mickey.

I like your Russian language columns! Your Russian is a couple of orders of magnitude better than mine. Of course I console myself with the thought that I didn’t start studying it until I was nearly 30.

Thanks. I started when I was about 16, but I’m still not Pushkin. The only consolation is that Russians can never get articles right in English, so I figure we can screw up aspect until the end of time.

I always say, “Я не Пушкин, но, может быть, собака Пушкина.”

It is pretty embarasssing for me to remember how wretched my Russian used to be. Then there was that blessed moment when I realized I could actually understand what people were saying on TV!

The downside is that Russian has driven French and German out of my brain. I used to know French very well, and now it takes me real effort to write in it, let alone speak it.

Yeah, it does seem like a new language drives the old ones out of the brain. I also used to speak French decently and write my little compositions just fine, but now I can’t say a word. But if you drop me in any romance language country or Slavic country, I can sort of almost most of the time figure out the gist of things. I also have this theory that good Russian is harder to write than good English. Russian editors always have to correct my word order. And when I ask why, they say Музыка языка. I’m thinking: man, you must want Chaikovsky and I’m writing in DDT:)

“But if you drop me in any romance language country or Slavic country, I can sort of almost most of the time figure out the gist of things.”

Yeah, I once wowed my sister by translating a Mexican soap opera for her just by using my French. I can usually sort-of make out Polish and Danish with some effort, though they look to me like demented versions of Russian and German, respectively.

Another great Roman accomplishment — spreading velikii i moguchi latinskii yazyk throughout the world! I feel so patriotic. *sniff*

I always use clunky block characters. Just can’t handle the cursive.

And my accent is super-strong. Even in French my accent is super-strong, and I started studying that when I was 19.

Damn those ossifying language-acquisition centers of the brain.

Doug my selffriend. Self about to go to Starlight Diner and satiate lack-feeling with deceased bovine nutrients.

Yeah, I know. The emotion is overwhelming. But I’m still an arrogant, ignorant neocon bourgeois liberal biassed asshole.

Douglock references? Selffriend?

This blog is an education, Sean. Let me tell you…

New Mutants go to party, but Cannonball not give self address. Self left alone to eat at Starlight Diner. Self sad. Self think Cannonball a dick.

It therefore stands to reason that someone who is anti-Putin isn’t so pro-Russian, despite what they might say to the contrary.

So somebody who is anti-Putin cannot be pro-Russian?!!

Wait a second — you’re Michelle Berdy, aren’t you?

Hah! Somebody identified on a blog! Brilliant!

It is pretty embarasssing for me to remember how wretched my Russian used to be.

I do too, and I’m sure this happens no matter what stage you are with the language.

I remember shortly I first arrived in Sakhalin, and a friend asked me if I was bored being at home alone (my wife had gone back to Piter). My reply? “No, I’ve eaten already.”

I was confusing “skuchno” with “pakushayesh”. Jesus wept.

I always use clunky block characters. Just can’t handle the cursive.

Me too. When I recently wrote the ’shsh’ letter, my wife burst out laughing. She thought I’d drawn a popa with a twig sticking out.

“Hah! Somebody identified on a blog! Brilliant!”

It was the weekly column on the Russian language bit that gave it away, coupled with the initials “MAB”. That, and my Holmesian deductive skills.

You will learn to fear Chrisius Maximus, o criminals of Victorian England.

I just need a Watson.

All this chummy talk is making me think it’s high time we got a SRB pissup together in Moscow. We should try to get a few of us together some time.

When is Ger due over there? I might be able to jack up a business trip to Moscow at the same time.

And I reckon we should all chip in for Mike’s ticket, just so we can finally settle the argument as to whether he’s been here, and he can see for himself the dearth of two-headed eagles in popular culture, and the bewildered looks Russians give when you ask them about Transdniestra or Serbia.

I am living in fear now, what with the Roman on my trail. But… but… you guys use your real names — at least some of you do. Of course, I must assume that Chrisius Maximus doesn’t sign his checks that way. Although, who knows? I have a such a weird name that people sometimes laugh when I introduce myself. They think I’m kidding.

We do not use checks in Rome, unlike you barbarians. I pay in good, honest Roman currency with Augustus’ illustrious visage.

I do sometimes tip in slaves, however.

“IRISHMAN on October 9, 2007 12:53 pm
Mike,
calm down. No need for language, please.”

****

You’re the one in need of a chill pill. I try staying on topic. Replying to trolldom isn’t being a troll.

———————————————-

“Chrisius Maximus on October 9, 2007 12:58 pm
And lo, my brethren, I beheld in a vision a braying beast. It was the inchoate rage of the madman as he beat his head against the unforgiving walls of reality. Let us join hands and lower our heads in pity.”

****

Your self confession of being a loon? If so, then this is a start.

———————————————-

“Kolya on October 9, 2007 1:35 pm
Wait a minute! I knew that Michael Averko does not live in Russia, but is it true that he actually never lived in Russia (except, perhaps, for a couple short trips) and does not even write in Russian? I’m rather new to this, so I don’t know. His English is rather peculiar and wooden, so I assumed that his primary language is Russian. By the way, by writing this I’m not claiming that I’m a better writer than him.”

****

You certainly aren’t a better writer, while making faulty analytical comments about Russia. Nothing “wooden” about me. Writing included.

———————————————-

“mab on October 9, 2007 1:38 pm
MAB, what backgound do you have in Russian/Soviet History and International Affairs? Have you formally appeared anywhere (in writing or otherwise)?

I have an academic background in Russian lang, lit and history. I graduated magna cum laude from Amherst College. I was field producer for a bunch of US tv stations (Frontline, Washington Media and others) and as far as I know, I’m the only American to co-produce tv public affairs shows on Russian tv. I’ve been an expert grand poobah on a bunch of tv and radio shows on culture, lanugage and health issues, both in Russia and the US. I’m co-author of a Russian-English dictionary. I’ve translated about a half dozen books, about 50 films, and about a million boring reports and articles. I’ve interpreted for folks like Nancy Reagan and Boris Yeltsin. I sometimes do master classes in translation in Russia, including for English teachers at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I write a lot on pop culture and travel in English and on a variety of subjects in Russian. I write a weekly column on language, culture and translation. What else? Oh, I write guidebooks, so if you want to know good restaurants, affordable hotels or weirdo museums, I’m your girl. (Go to the Krasnaya Presnya Museum and ask them to turn on the sound effects for the diorama of the 1905 street fighting.) I’ve had a parallel career in public health communication, which is why I go to places like Berezniki and spend time in provincial hospitals and clinics. So if hotels bore you, ask me about MDR TB in the CIS and Eastern Europe or reproductive health. I’m great fun at dinner parties. I can tell you all the statistics on STDs (sexually transmitted diseases) in Russia and ruin your sex life for the next five years.”

****

I’m sorry to hear about the last point. Interesting background you give of yourself. However, it doesn’t often directly relate with the issues I tend to focus on (certain aspects of Russian history I’m interested in, foreign policy, sports and media critique as opposed to working in media).

———————————————-

“Chrisius Maximus on October 9, 2007 1:40 pm

‘Wait a minute! I knew that Michael Averko does not live in Russia, but is it true that he actually never lived in Russia (except, perhaps, for a couple short trips) and does not even write in Russian? I’m rather new to this, so I don’t know. His English is rather peculiar and wooden, so I assumed that his primary language is Russian. By the way, by writing this I’m not claiming that I’m a better writer than him.’

But you are a better writer than he is.

No, Averko does not know the Russian language.”

****

The above quoted Chris Doss’ views are irrelevant, given his poorly displayed English language grammar skills, combined with a displayed great ignorance about a number of FSU topics. All this despite his often self advertised Russian language knowledge. Hopefully for his sake, it’s better than his English.

———————————————-

“mab on October 9, 2007 1:45 pm
Yup, only one ‘l’ please. And most people call me Mickey.”

****

Like TMT has been balanced with its selection of columnists. Ditto the other opinion pieces.

———————————————-

“Tim Newman on October 9, 2007 7:13 pm
‘It therefore stands to reason that someone who is anti-Putin isn’t so pro-Russian, despite what they might say to the contrary.’

So somebody who is anti-Putin cannot be pro-Russian?!!”

****

He/she hypothetically can be. It’s often times not the case. If given a choice of the two (pro and anti), where would you put yourself?

———————————————-

“Tim Newman on October 9, 2007 7:47 pm
All this chummy talk is making me think it’s high time we got a SRB pissup together in Moscow. We should try to get a few of us together some time.

When is Ger due over there? I might be able to jack up a business trip to Moscow at the same time.

And I reckon we should all chip in for Mike’s ticket, just so we can finally settle the argument as to whether he’s been here, and he can see for himself the dearth of two-headed eagles in popular culture, and the bewildered looks Russians give when you ask them about Transdniestra or Serbia.”

****

NOTHING has been showed to deny the two headed eagle’s enhanced usage in Russia. There doesn’t seem to be much opposition to this reality.

On your Pridnestrovie and Serbia point, try talking politics/world affairs with the average American, among others.

MA: Most Russians look at Putin favorably. It therefore stands to reason that someone who is anti-Putin isn’t so pro-Russian, despite what they might say to the contrary.

Tim, thanks for reminding me of that nugget. I guess that by this logic anyone who was against the policies of GW Bush when he was at the peak of his popularity was “anti-American” (or at least “not so pro-American”). Funny, I always thought one of the primary duties of patriots in a democracy was to offer constructive criticism of the government.

Since we’re sharing tough moments with Russian, I’ll share the trauma of being introduced into second grade (2-y klass) at a Russian school back in the ’80s – I’d had eight weeks of “immersion” at a summer camp in the US beforehand but of course had not learned to write in cursive, which was something that all of my classmates had learned in first grade. So I was demoted to study with the first-graders for a few months until I got the hang of the cursive (though my handwriting is horrible, as it is in English – at least one teacher in Leningrad chalked this up to being left-handed and wanted to force me to learn to write with my right hand).

As for the spoken word, my pre-departure training, while probably the best available for an eight-year-old, had revolved around cartoon/mnemonic devices like “Car reach Navy” for “korichnevyi” and other similarly amusingly illustrated phrases. So figuring out pronunciation of many things, including non-Russian words, took a bit longer. I recall once early on in my time there being quite confused when someone asked me if I had read “Prikliucheniia Toma Soiera na angliiskom yazyke” – I had no idea what they were talking about. By the time we left three years later, I could pass for Russian (learning languages as a kid is much easier than as an adult!).

This once got me in a bit of trouble with some menty who thought I was a young, foreign-t-shirt-wearing, Finnish-bicycle-riding fartsovshchik who shouldn’t be talking to foreign tourists on Palace Square. But of course language skills fade with disuse, and when I went back to study for the summer about 10 years later I had a scary week where I was tongue-tied and thought the TV news people were talking way too fast. Thankfully, that passed, although it took me awhile to expunge the stored-up 11-year-old’s slang from my Russian. But listen to me rambling on about the good ol’ days…

Ms. Berdy, I thought that might be you a couple of days ago when you made the comment about having a regular column on language. Welcome to the ship of fools that is the SRB commenter community. I am hard pressed to think of many Americans with as much first-hand knowledge of Russia as you have, but predictably Averko considers your experience and credentials irrelevant to understanding Russia since your views don’t coincide with his – and of course you write for the “biased” Moscow Times.

When I was a wee lad, there used to be a poster in my dentist’s office that said, “Ignore your teeth and they’ll go away.” For some reason, that phrase has stuck with me all these years and seems appropriate to mention at this juncture…

Hey, speaking of a get-together in Moscow (which sounds dandy to me, though sadly I have no idea when I’ll be there next), does anyone mind if I attempt to direct the thread drift by posing a question for all? If you could have dinner with five Russians, living or dead, fictional or real, who would they be?

“You certainly aren’t a better writer, while making faulty analytical comments about Russia. Nothing “wooden” about me. Writing included.”

This was all wooden. You write like a ten-year-old trying to imitate cultivated speech. I recognize it because this is how I wrote in the stories when I was ten.

Madness… madness… ‘Tis a thing to behold.

Get into therapy already, for Jove’s sake. Seriously. Improve your own life and stop bugging us. In a few years, come back.

As things stand, the Roman Consulate will never grant you a visa. We have standards, and our madmen-seers must be officially approved by the Holy Temples of the Gods. Crucifixion will await you here, o blaspheming trespasser.

How so? The editor in need of editing is in no position to make such a judgment.

Now he thinks he speaks for everyone.

A pathetically twisted sort.

mab on October 9, 2007 4:52 am

I don’t see why that letter is “proven” to be a lie. And as for bravery, I think Politkovskaya was extremely brave — unless you think her detention was a lie, too.

I didn’t get the connection between being detained and being brave. “От сумы и от тюрьмы – не зарекайся”.
But if you think that the “confession” was real – could you explain few things to me?

Politkovskaya was a “pro” and practiced “advocacy journalism”.
So it’s correct to assume that she checked the facts before publishing them, right?
I mean – she knew the name of the person and his place of work – so that was easy.
And what the “brilliant brave pro” did with such “gold duck”?
Did she try to meet with him and get all these terrible stories? Remember – the man didn’t hide his face.
But Politkovskaya were not interested?
Or did she know for sure that “confessed officer” never existed?
And the only reason to publish this “letter” was to get words “Russian death squadrons” in hard copy? Who would remember that this was bullshit. But the news that “Politkovskaya exposed bla…bla..bla… again” would stay in empty heads forever.

If you read the link – you saw the answer from Prosecution office – the “officer” didn’t exist. Did P. or Novaya Gazeta publish that answer?

Now about the smell.
As an arrogant, ignorant neocon bourgeois liberal biassed asshole you should know people rather well.
Now tell me why did the person who killed tens of people decide to “confess”?
I understand that person could kill tens of people by impulse or being in situation when he had to shoot, shoot and shoot – without single second to think about his actions. And after that – confessed.
But person who was doing this systematically ? If he was scared of his commander all this time – where did he get guts to confess later?
If he was doing this by his own “will” – why does he need any confession?

Okay, okay – he decided to confess cause … let’s say he saw face of St.Maria в стакане водки. Unlikely (100.1%) but possible.

Keep in mind – he signed a death sentence for himself. He would be
- killed by relatives of murdered
- or murdered by his unit’s members as witness – or get life sentence by court (slow death).

Now he said that was in FSB for more than 10 years. So he wrote thousands of reports, notes, dokladnich etc. And he did them in very specific manner:
To: xxxx
Subject: xxxx
Date and number: xxxx

TEXT – simple, clear, about the matter, with names, dates and places.

Signed by FULL name, position and rank.

As FSB officer he knew that such “confessions” should be sent to regional Military Prosecution Office (Voennaya prokuratura). One could sent copies to UN, Bush and Moon as well but General Prosecution Office (GPO) will send such letter down to region anyway.

The person who really wrote the “confession” had never written anything in formal military/FSB style.

So what was the point of such “confession”?
My theory – some sick person (я не стану указывать пальцем) sent such letter to GPO. It was received and registered (this is standard procedure). That some of “friends of advocacy journalist” saw it, made copy and passed to Politkovskaya. Or this might have happened in local Military Prosecution office. This doesn’t matter as long as there is Stamp “Received”.
Now it’s time to publish “truth”…
I wouldn’t be surprise to learn that the letter was fabricated by “advocative” journalist…

PS. I don’t hate Politkovskaya nor happy with her death. But I don’t have any respect for her either. Why people think that title “journalist” makes a person wise, brave and immune to bullshit?

BTW I thought you were Russian. From few first comments that I read. You smell Russian )) And from your “resume” – I can say that you are brave, Mickey.

Ivanov,

Okay, you don’t respect Politkovskaya, but why not acknowledge that she was brave? Even, if according to you, she was a dishonest journalist, why not brave? She placed herself in harms way many many times during her life.

If I understand Chris correctly, he says Politkovskaya was a fanatic and therefore not brave, since the bravery of a fanatic is not real bravery. I don’t agree with that. First, I don’t agree her fanaticism was of the suicide bomber variety. It took real guts to do what she did. I don’t see how anyone can deny that.

As a matter of fact (and I got flak in other places for saying that), as despicable and evil as their act was, I also think the 9/11 terrorist were brave. In other words, you can be brave and morally blind or even evil.

Let’s agree to disagree about Politkovskaya. Although at times over the top in her writing, I consider her a Russian hero. I know that neither you, nor Chris agree.

NOTHING has been showed to deny the two headed eagle’s enhanced usage in Russia.

Similarly, nothing has been shown to deny the presence of goblins in Red Square.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy known as shifting the burden of proof.

“The burden of proof” is crystal clear.

During Putin’s presidency, the two headed eagle’s use has been noticeably enhanced vis-a-vis military, sports and non-military government affiliated uniforms. It also appears to be more used on other matter like bottles and letterhead.

How goblins relate to all this isn’t so clear.

During Putin’s presidency, the two headed eagle’s use has been noticeably enhanced vis-a-vis military, sports and non-military government affiliated uniforms.

Nobody’s arguing otherwise. What people are contending is the notion that the symbol has any significant meaning in the hearts and minds of ordinary Russians, in the way that the hammer and sickle emblem does.

Russians care about as much as the symbols on military uniforms as they do about the numbers on speed-limit signs.

How about its enhanced use on other mentioned matter?

Where’s the massive opposition to its use?

How popular are the national eagles of other countries?

Come to think of it, how much better would England’s fottie team be if it was instead the UK, consisting of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England?

Sorry. Wrong thread as per the last one.

Where’s the massive opposition to its use?

There isn’t any. Russians are apathetic about most things, this is one of them. If it was abolished tomorrow, most Russians wouldn’t notice, let alone care.

So, it was apathetically reintroduced as the national emblem?

Just like how the old Soviet anthem returned, but with new words?

For that matter, the Red Star (not Hammer and Sickle) has made a bit of a comeback in Russia and other former Commuhnist space including Croatia (refer to the logo of Dynamo Zagreb). However, its official definition (if I’m not mistaken) has changed from the Soviet era.

I have an academic background in Russian lang, lit and history. I graduated magna cum laude from Amherst College.

etc.

This is all very well and good mab, speaking fluent Russians and being widely published writer on Russian affairs, but seeing that you don’t know the exact timetable for demobilisation of scaffolding material from the Sakhalin II LNG Contruction Project under the PSA agreement, I think we can dismiss everything you say about Russia and Russian life.

Furthermore, sources more knowledgeable tha yourself inform me that your understanding of the habitat of the lower Volganian three-toed octopus is poor, further adding to my first point above.

So, it was apathetically reintroduced as the national emblem?

Non-apathetic politicians brought it back into use. Those of the Russian public who noticed stifled a yawn.

Well I don’t consider her a hero, but I’ve never made any comment as to Politkovskaya’s bravery or lack thereof.

“Tim Newman on October 10, 2007 5:30 am So, it was apathetically reintroduced as the national emblem?

Non-apathetic politicians brought it back into use. Those of the Russian public who noticed stifled a yawn.”

****

You didn’t see Alex Ovechkin after he scored a goal against Team USA.

He skated right in front of the US bench and lifted the two headed eagle portion of his jersey to the US players, as he said a few (no doubt) choice words.

“as he said a few (no doubt) choice words.”

“Can one of you please tell me what this bird is?”

Tim wrote:
“This is all very well and good mab… but seeing that you don’t know the exact timetable for demobilisation of scaffolding material from the Sakhalin II LNG Contruction Project under the PSA agreement, I think we can dismiss everything you say about Russia and Russian life.”
Yeah, well, you’re right of course. What a fraud I am… On the other hand, Ivanov writes:
“BTW I thought you were Russian. From few first comments that I read. You smell Russian ))”
So maybe I’m arrogant and ignorant, but smell Russian. What a compliment! Why did I divorce you, Ivanov?

Ivanov — this does come under the category of “out of my area of competence.” (Tim is just so right.) I do not know all the procedures for registering letters, etc. I also agree that the letter “smells” weird — all the “I want to confess my sins before God” stuff. And I always say that whenever you insist that это не может быть потому, что это не может быть никогда — you get in trouble. However, I do not think the FSB report on the case is, uh, necessarily to be trusted, and from everything I know about Politkovskaya and NG, I think they checked info (as the piece states).

I don’t think anyone is saying that just because Politkovskaya was a journalist, she was automatically brave or immune from bullshit. I mean, I work with journalists — you want stories? I also see how all of her failings are being whitewashed (as Sean noted), although that is a human tendency, and for Gosh sakes — she was a women younger than me who was murdered! But to me she is like the strident US journalist-commentators who write about Bush & Co. in the US. If she pushed the envelope, so be it. Even if you don’t like it, it is a crucial part of the — drum roll for pathos — democratic process.

Meanwhile, I’m thinking about my five dinner party Russians… and reeling. MA likes the TMT Op Ed page policy! Let the heavens open and the light shine through!
And now I have to finish packing out of my dacha! Sigh. Hauling 300 lbs of books and junk and listening to two cats scream for an hour. Must buy lots of booze for self-medication later.

“If you could have dinner with five Russians, living or dead, fictional or real, who would they be?”

All at the same time? If I invite Trotsky and Stalin, will they try to kill each other?

As blood spurts from Trotsky’s forehead, Stalin would sit back in his chair, puff on his pipe and say, “Works every time.”

Brilliant!

“Chrisius Maximus on October 10, 2007 5:55 am ‘as he said a few (no doubt) choice words.’

‘Can one of you please tell me what this bird is’?”

*****

Again with the unspecified quote.

Bird?

Alex Ovechkin is a one man wrecking crew. A solid all arounf player who can hit and play the finesse game with the best.

One of his words was Rossiya. The man is a patriot.

———————————————-

MAB

How Moscow Timesish a reply from you on TMTs’ biased policies.

You, who protest about Russian mass media.

Latynina is another one with false impressions of what did and didn’t go on in former Yugoslavia.

As for a recent exchange, here’s a quote from a SWP demo. as the USSR broke up:

“Yeltsin and Kravchuk out the door. Lenin and Trotsky is what we’re for.”

Pardon misspell in the post before the last one.

Just as long as Trotsky doesn’t bring along a small piece of brown-colored mass.

Kolya wrote:
She placed herself in harms way many many times during her life.
Cause she was wacky (юродивая)?

And you haven’t name journalists killed by government agents…

Why did I divorce you, Ivanov?
Cause I’m tooooo smart? )

Ivanov — this does come under the category of “out of my area of competence.”
This excuse is declined, mab. I just asked you opinion about all these странности. Like:
- do you think the serial killer would “confess in front of the God” by sending letter to Prosecutor’s office?
- why didn’t Politkovskaya contact such “source” for more stories?

etc.

If she pushed the envelope, so be it. Even if you don’t like it, it is a crucial part of the — drum roll for pathos — democratic process.
Who told you that she was murdered by the “regime” for her “critics of the regime”?

As I said – she is more powerful weapon as dead symbol than as alive “truth finder”…

for Gosh sakes — she was a women younger than me who was murdered!
That’s why I said “I understand your feelings”

PS. take care of cats )

Mab never said or suggested that that Politkovskaya was murdered by the “regime” for her “criticism of the regime.”

Someone I know in the non-PC/non-recognized “dissident” group said that being critical of Politkovskaya’s work is if anything “brave”.

Once again, I can only think of three formally written English language articles critical of her work. Objectivley, Politkovskaya’s commentary left something to be desired, while conforming with English language mass media biases. When being opinionated, one should ideally try to be as objective as possible by answering oppposing views in a relatively direct manner.

Politkovskaya’s last few years saw an enhanced “over the top” commentary on her part.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 10, 2007 11:53 am Mab never said or suggested that that Politkovskaya was murdered by the ‘regime’ for her ‘criticism of the regime’.”

*****

She did speak of a Russian media black list of certain individuals and of Russians being suggestively more ignorant than Westerners on a number of topics inluding former Yugo.

The above quoted posted material suggesting differently on the first point. Along with Aleks, yours truly debunked the typically questionable English language mass media opinions versus facts relating to her reference on Srebrenica.

”Politkovskaya’s last few years saw an enhanced “over the top” commentary on her part.”

I read one of her books – cant think of the name -and certainly she overcooks the goose and I have no doubt she exaggerated at times. But her heart was in the right place. It doesnt excuse her distortions, but she was one of the few journalists willing to seriously question the Kremlin, especially about Chechnya, and her bravery is certainly deserving of respect and remembrance.

Did she really “question” the Kremlin though. I don’t think I have the force of will to make myself to read one of her books, but I did read her NG articles — most of which had headlines like “Army Run by Satanists who Sacrifice Chechen Children in Unholy Rituals.” She was extremely light on analysis, just listing bad stuff. I don’t recollect her ever attempting to actually account for anything beyond saying that the Army Is Bad and they do bad things because They Are Bad People.

Irishman, I agree with what you wrote about Politkovskaya. You said it more clearly and better than me.

Ivanov, go back and read what I wrote. Where did I assert that Russian journalists were murdered by government agents? What I did say is that I would not at all be surprised if that is indeed the case. And I also wrote that I would not be surprised if Chechens thugs, mafia killers or oligarchs hit-men were responsible for such murders. And there is probably plenty of overlap. It would not be surprising if some of these contract killers actually get their money from several of the groups I mentioned. In addition, let us not forget that a person in a position of authority does not have to issue a direct order to whack someone to be morally responsible for the murder. He can communicate his wishes in more indirect ways. (An analogous situation is what’s happening in the US with the torture issue. Bush, Gonzales, et al may have never ordered anyone to be tortured, but they are obviously morally responsible for those abuses. They fostered a climate in which torture (as long as you don’t call it that) became acceptable.)

As I wrote before, from Lystiev to Politkovskaya, the climate for Russian investigative journalists is such that they know that if they keep on writing (or investigating) certain things they may end up being killed. Can an investigative journalist be whacked in France or the US? Yes. But the odds for it are much much higher in Russia.

- do you think the serial killer would “confess in front of the God” by sending letter to Prosecutor’s office?
I think it’s possible that someone who wanted to stop his commander would do that.
- why didn’t Politkovskaya contact such “source” for more stories?
Because she couldn’t find him?

No, I don’t think she was killed by the regime. I really have no idea who killed her, but assume it is either someone — or group of someones — she angered and they wanted to punish her, or someone (or group) who felt threatened by her reporting and wanted her stopped. My totally uninformed guess is that it is not an ethnic Russian and it is not someone at a high level. My own theory on a lot of the killings and weird stuff going on is that it’s the mid- and lower-level guys, not the guys on top ordering something. I frankly thing the place is a bardak these days. But I could absolutely be totally wrong. We’re reading tea leaves.

Well, you’re using hyperbole for effect there, CM. Actually, she does account for the big bad stuff, and that’s her very sweeping criticism of Putin and “the regime.” I agree with Ger. She focussed on what the federaly were doing in Chechnya and what Chechens were going through when almost no one else was.

Chris,

when I said Kremlin, I meant the armed forces really, and whilst I do know she moaned a lot and was light on substance, again she was on of the few to highling this stuff in the Russian media.

”All this chummy talk is making me think it’s high time we got a SRB pissup together in Moscow. We should try to get a few of us together some time.

When is Ger due over there? I might be able to jack up a business trip to Moscow at the same time.”

I’m certainly on for it. Let me know when suits yourselves – I’m finished work here on 3rd december and am free to travel anytime really after that. It’d be brilliant to meet up and have a few pints!

“Well, you’re using hyperbole for effect there, CM. Actually, she does account for the big bad stuff, and that’s her very sweeping criticism of Putin and “the regime.””

Not in anything I’ve read, and I don’t see her as writing an analytical treatise on the causes of the Chechen War.

Which doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist — I have not seen one.

“Not in anything I’ve read, and I don’t see her as writing an analytical treatise on the causes of the Chechen War.”
Well, I don’t think she did write about this (but could be wrong), but I think that’s what you’d get from a different kind of journalist. She was reporting on one side of the story. That’s another criticism of her, but as I wrote — that was her choice and I think we need that kind of reporting, too. I think it will be years before someone can step back and write a decent history of what has gone on there.

She was reporting on one side of the story. That’s another criticism of her, but as I wrote — that was her choice and I think we need that kind of reporting, too.

So you think that tales about killed dragons were “reporting”?

I’m not saying she didn’t have the rights to write her way. BUT this is not reporting, not journalism as I understand it.

PS. I haven’t read her books. And could read very limited quantities of her “reporting”. But somehow I knew what was happening in Chechnya. So may be somehow possible that she was not the only few?

Well, Ivanov, you probably are one of the few. If you read newspapers, runet and internet stuff, you do know more than most people. But the number of journalists writing about Chechnya regularly or only about Chechnya is only a tiny percent of journalists in the country.

By Russian standards (as in what interests most Russians), what other top rated rated stories are out there?

This relates to how Western mass media elites typically rationalize their overall prioritization of news coverage and editorial content.

On the American national level, New Orleans is no longer being widely written about.

MAB!

Michele A Berdy!! I love your language column in the TMT, its just great. My Russian is pretty bad and when I look at your stuff, I think, wouldnt it be great to be someday like her?
I do hope your realise, however, that all your experience is of no relevance to MA. Dont waste your time getting into battles with him.

Thanks, Ger. All you have to be like me is come to Russia and stay here for 30 years. Easy!
Yeah, I’ve already figured out that knowledge and experience count for nothing. But of course there’s more that I don’t know than I do know, despite Ivanov’s insistence that my nose works just fine:)

“Irishman on October 11, 2007 8:01 am MAB!

Michele A Berdy!! I love your language column in the TMT, its just great. My Russian is pretty bad and when I look at your stuff, I think, wouldnt it be great to be someday like her?
I do hope your realise, however, that all your experience is of no relevance to MA. Dont waste your time getting into battles with him.

mab on October 11, 2007 8:11 am Thanks, Ger. All you have to be like me is come to Russia and stay here for 30 years. Easy!
Yeah, I’ve already figured out that knowledge and experience count for nothing. But of course there’s more that I don’t know than I do know, despite Ivanov’s insistence that my nose works just fine:)”

****

More BS from GC and the above quoted other. They continuously display ignorance on a number of topics. The above quoted exchanges are a feeble way of claiming some bizarre kind of superority which is otherwise clearly lacking.

Mike,

in all fairness, not trying to start a battle here, but MAB has spent 30 years in Russia and you show little respect. Have you no emotional intelligence at all?

“Irishman on October 11, 2007 8:21 am Mike,

in all fairness, not trying to start a battle here, but MAB has spent 30 years in Russia and you show little respect. Have you no emotional intelligence at all?’

***

On the latter point, you appear not to.

Try to substantively discuss the issues and not where one lives.

Practice what you preach by starting to show some respect.

Wrong Sean, as you omit what precipatated. Refer to the above posts which you didn’t reference.

I raised a discussion only related point BEFORE Ger launched an unnecessary personal attack on me that isn’t subject related.

Fair enough Sean and Mike, I wont push it. It just baffles me that someone could actually consider MABs experience as not relevant to Mike’s points about media freedom in Rus. But, I’ll leave it alone.

“Irishman on October 11, 2007 8:51 am
Fair enough Sean and Mike, I wont push it. It just baffles me that someone could actually consider MABs experience as not relevant to Mike’s points about media freedom in Rus. But, I’ll leave it alone.”

****

No, the above quoted didn’t “leave it alone”. Show me MAB’s experience on issues dealing with former Yugoslavia, disputed former Communist bloc territories, sports, knowledge of English language mass media coverage of Russia and any number of history related issues.

When I address these issues in a direct way, I very reasonably expect the replies to be in a respectful manner. Note that I’m not the one initially raising those topics in a good number of discussions.

Respect should be a two way street.

PS (on a happier topic…) I wrote tomorrow’s column ESPECIALLY for you all. It’s a short cut to learning Russian and conversing with your Russian wives. Enjoy.

Alright Mike, fair enough, I have been quite rough on you and its bad form.

And in my role of cheerful peacemaker, I will admit it: I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT SPORTS. I think the Lakers are a football team.

Sean,

I’m not trying to fan the flames, genuinely, but referring to MAB as ignorant in this context is simply astounding. MAB has tons of experience and know-how that just has to be respected. No amount of bluster will convince me otherwise. MAB would have to have the inside track on Russian media.

Sean/Mike

I’ll stop causing grief – in fairness I was the one who had a go at Mike. I dont want him to storm off again, really, so I promise no more aggro on this thread.

Gosh, since I seem to be the topic here, no matter how I’m trying to avoid it… No, Sean, I haven’t published my columns in a book, but am looking for a publisher. They don’t fall into one easily marketable category (I like to think of them as sui generis…) so it is turning out to be oddly hard to find someone who gets it and will market it right. I’m working on it.

Sean

I frequently live a Bohemian lifestyle where I make my own hours.

You miss the point again.

She very suggestively said some not so correct things about a number of issues like how Russians are supposedly misinformed about former Yugoslav issues. She followed up by saying this was due to the Russian mass media. Aleks and yours truly showed that she didn’t know better on Srebrenica. I gave further examples of how flawed English language mass media is on that and other subjects.

I don’t believe that someone’s celebrity standing (at least with some) gives them carte blanche over others, in the from of not getting critiqued after stating questionable comments.

You’ve allowed for some harsh stuff to be posted against me. I can take it. I’m not fond of hypocrisy on such a policy.

When compared to some others, I’ve a comparatively better record of shutting up on any number of FSU topics I know little about. On the other hand, when an individual with a knowledge outside their given expertise makes an erroneous comment, it’s IMO bogus to then divert attention away from that fault-line, by a self promotion of accolades which don’t address the erroneous comment made.

In concluding, I get my share of high fives from well educated, Russian born Russians and others of high academic standing. There’s no need for me to shutup when something questionable is being said.

“Sean on October 11, 2007 9:13 am

‘Respect should be a two way street.’

Sigh. Respect must be deserved. Mike do you find it strange that you’re always involved in getting a thread closed? Do ya just a little?

And you want to talk about respect? Why not throw some my way since I provide this space so you can discuss Russia.”

****

You’ve been earnest enough to admit to showing biases Sean. The above quoted from you shows. I’m not the one initiating troll like manner here. As for your last point in the above quoted, why don’t you chime in when I’m rudely attacked?

———————————————-

“Sean on October 11, 2007 9:14 am
Mike, memo: the argument is idiotic.”

****

Which “argument”?

Just had an idea Mike – the ultimate challenge. You often talk about what an excellent analyst and writer relative to me that you are. Why not have a little competition – we both write an article, about anything FSU, and the readers vote as to which one they think is better. I double-dog dare you.

Perhaps sleep deprivation is an aggravating factor in Mike’s personality disorder?

“I frequently live a Bohemian lifestyle where I make my own hours.”

Translation: you’re unemployed.

I double-second Irishman’s double-dog dare.

Even though no one is paying attention to me, I’ll just continue to throw in my two cents. MA, it’s the charges of ignorance and bias that are a big problem. Ivanov thinks I’m wrong, wrong, wrong, but he doesn’t scream that I’m misinformed, or uninformed or ignorant. He just keeps trying to straighten out my faulty interpretations. Of course, this is the reason we got divorced, but hey, maybe this marriage can be saved:)

No, the above quoted didn’t “leave it alone”. Show me MAB’s experience on issues dealing with former Yugoslavia, disputed former Communist bloc territories, sports, knowledge of English language mass media coverage of Russia and any number of history related issues.

Indeed. Show me also her experience on issues related to the installation of GRP valve boxes on the Sakhalin II Oil Export Terminal. She clearly should be ignored in all discussions related to Russia.

See! Tim agrees! I don’t even know what a frigging GRP valve box is! I think Lokomotiv is a choo-choo train! I think Moldova is a vineyard north of Sonoma! And besides, I’m just a girl!

Gee, I sure hope those girl cooties can’t get passed electronically. I might get infected.

I don’t even know what a frigging GRP valve box is!

Exactly! Mike has been vindicated! Fancy not knowing what a GRP valve box is, especially one related to the Sakhalin II OET. Next we’ll discover mab lives in ignorance of the gas-in phase of the SEIC OPF at Lunskoye being postponed by 12 months due to construction delays associated with last-minute design changes!!

How she is a well published author on Russian affairs is anyone’s guess. Were it not for the west bloc officials preventing the recognition of parallel biases, Mike would have been given her job by now.

Well, see, boys, we’re all agreed. I’m a fraud. With cooties. Ew.

BTW on my celebrity status… TMT invited me to the company shindig on the paper’s 15th anniversary. It was addressed “Dear Mr. Berdy.” I’m thinking I gotta show some cleavage and clear up any gender confusion.

See, that’s what happens when you spell your name with only one “l.” People think you’re a Frenchman.

Back to the subject at hand, Politkovskaya (another person with cooties). After some thought, I think what most annoys me about her and similar people, and what clearly demonstrates their partisan status, can be nicely summed up using the example of the change of the boeviki into the kadyrovtsy.

A few years ago, the standard interpretation one would see in most media in the West and in the “liberal” media in Russia is that the Chechen boeviki were more-or-less heroes fighting the evil imperialist Russians. This line faded a bit after the involvement of radical Islamists got to obvious to deny (perhaps it was the giant green flag saying “Allah Akhbar” in Arabic during the Dubrovka seige, but it was still there.

Fast-forward a few years. Moscow has prevailed in Chechnya effectively by hiring the great majority of the boeviki, turning them into kadyrovtsy, and by throwing money at Chechnya for reconstruction. These very same people, doing pretty much the same things they were doing when they were in the mountains, are now on the Russian side, and are now decried as monsters. Albeit monsters who, it is grudgingly admitted, apparently have popular support among Chechens.

“Irishman on October 11, 2007 10:43 am Just had an idea Mike – the ultimate
challenge. You often talk about what an excellent analyst and writer
relative to me that you are. Why not have a little competition – we both
write an article, about anything FSU, and the readers vote as to which one
they think is better. I double-dog dare you.”

****

The better test between us is to see who has formally appeared at venues where their written and spoken work has been placed. In posted exchanges, it’s clear that I’m the more knowledgeable. The voting result in the above quoted proposal would likely be dominated by those in this batch of exchanges which relate to me. I must have something on the ball for this crew to be concentrating their efforts in such a way. Granted the perverse aspects of it which don’t relate to me (see bottom note to Sean on the details).

———————————————-

“Chrisius Maximus on October 11, 2007 10:43 am Perhaps sleep deprivation is
an aggravating factor in Mike’s personality disorder?

‘I frequently live a Bohemian lifestyle where I make my own hours.’

Translation: you’re unemployed.”

****

Really? Wrong again. How about your sorry state of prolonged posts at this and other venues? Your personality disorder is quite severe.

———————————————-

“Chrisius Maximus on October 11, 2007 10:51 am I double-second Irishman’s
double-dog dare.”

****

You never did say where your analysis has appeared and you continue to bring
up non-topic related points here.

———————————————-

“mab on October 11, 2007 11:29 am Even though no one is paying attention to
me, I’ll just continue to throw in my two cents. MA, it’s the charges of ignorance and bias that are a big problem. Ivanov thinks I’m wrong, wrong,wrong, but he doesn’t scream that I’m misinformed, or uninformed or ignorant. He just keeps trying to straighten out my faulty interpretations.
Of course, this is the reason we got divorced, but hey, maybe this marriage
can be saved:)”

****

You once again omit what you said prior to those points you repeat. You wrongly accused me of hijacking the discussion, while not directly addressing the replies to some of the claims you made about Russians being misinformed. You alos belittled my background without likely knowing much about it. Moreover, you aren’t speaking out against this troll patrol behavior.

———————————————-

“Tim Newman on October 11, 2007 11:34 am No, the above quoted didn’t ‘leave
it alone’. Show me MAB’s experience on issues dealing with former Yugoslavia, disputed former Communist bloc territories, sports, knowledge of English language mass media coverage of Russia and any number of history
related issues.

Indeed. Show me also her experience on issues related to the installation of GRP valve boxes on the Sakhalin II Oil Export Terminal. She clearly should be ignored in all discussions related to Russia.”

***

And so?

———————————————-

“Tim Newman on October 11, 2007 11:45 am I don’t even know what a frigging
GRP valve box is!

Exactly! Mike has been vindicated! Fancy not knowing what a GRP valve box
is, especially one related to the Sakhalin II OET. Next we’ll discover mab
lives in ignorance of the gas-in phase of the SEIC OPF at Lunskoye being
postponed by 12 months due to construction delays associated with
last-minute design changes!!

How she is a well published author on Russian affairs is anyone’s guess.
Were it not for the west bloc officials preventing the recognition of
parallel biases, Mike would have been given her job by now.”

****

If TMT was truly profit driven, it would stand to reason that they’d have
columnists with views in opposition to the ones they’ve favored. A number of them being quite flawed. Your sarcasm aside shows the divide a number of Russians have with your idea of what’s good media.

———————————————-

Sean:

Don’t tell me I deserve this, when there’re these intelligent discussions to
serve as proof to the contrary:

http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/09/23/ukraine-the-language-issue/#comments

http://www.siberianlight.net/2007/07/05/sochi-to-host-the-2014-winter-olympics/

One of the two linked discussions resulted in my recent appearance at a very well paid panel discussion with a major news org.

What you’ve recently said about me in the open contradicts your positive comments to me about my work. I’ll once again remind you that two of our collaborations appeared at some relatively prominent venues.

It does not speak well of you to interject against me when I rightfully reply to troll like venom; as you regularly allow for it to be launched against me. You’re not setting a particularly good academic example.

Mike,

you claim to be the analyst, not me – I’m a chemist. I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU.

“Irishman on October 11, 2007 12:48 pm Mike,

you claim to be the analyst, not me – I’m a chemist. I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU.”

****

There he goes again, omitting my prior reply:

The better test between us is to see who has formally appeared at venues where their written and spoken work has been placed. In posted exchanges, it’s clear that I’m the more knowledgeable. The voting result in the above quoted proposal would likely be dominated by those in this batch of exchanges which relate to me. I must have something on the ball for this crew to be concentrating their efforts in such a way. Granted the perverse aspects of it which don’t relate to me (see bottom note to Sean in my prior post for the details).

A better dare is to challenge TMT to be more objective.

I QUADRUPLE DOG DARE YOU.

Mike,

there’s plenty of other readers than the contributors here. And in the interest of fairness, genuinely, we can ask everyone to be objective. We’re all adults here and I can take my beating as well as anyone.

What kind of a yellow-buried coward can turn down a TRIPLE-DOG DARE?!?!?!?

Mike has just confirmed his inferiority to Ger. Thanks Mike for your honesty and humility. Mike

“Irishman on October 11, 2007 12:54 pm I QUADRUPLE DOG DARE YOU.”

****

There he goes again, omitting my prior reply:

The better test between us is to see who has formally appeared at venues where their written and spoken work has been placed. In posted exchanges, it’s clear that I’m the more knowledgeable. The voting result in the above quoted proposal would likely be dominated by those in this batch of exchanges which relate to me. I must have something on the ball for this crew to be concentrating their efforts in such a way. Granted the perverse aspects of it which don’t relate to me (see bottom note to Sean in 1240PM post for the details).

THE BETTER DARE IS TO CHALLENGE TMT TO BE MORE OBJECTIVE.

A TRIPLE-DOG DARE!!!! What’s next, Def-Con 4?

This is a matter of grim seriousness.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 11, 2007 12:56 pm What kind of a yellow-buried coward can turn down a TRIPLE-DOG DARE?!?!?!?

Mike has just confirmed his inferiority to Ger. Thanks Mike for your honesty and humility. Mike”

***

Chris Doss has further confirmed his glee in enaging nonsense.

He should hang at the macho (not) named “take off the gloves” forum hosted by someone who has spoken out againast Fox News’ style of journalism.

Mike’s a coward.

Excuse the misspelling.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 11, 2007 1:00 pm Mike’s a coward.”

***

Chris the fraud.

Mike’s worse than Ger and admits it. Right on Mike! This is a step forward for you. I applaud you.

Ger > Mike

“Chrisius Maximus on October 11, 2007 1:01 pm Mike’s worse than Ger and admits it. Right on Mike! This is a step forward for you. I applaud you.

Ger > Mike”

****

The above quoted might be on brake fluid.

I’m just trying so hard to be nice, concilliatory and self-deprecating. But it just doesn’t work. The thing is, MA, I do respond. But you just ignore what I write.

CM, I mostly agree with what you write, although I’m less sure of media coverage in the West, or rather, I think there is a difference between the US and say France, which has been rabid about Chechnya from the start. I do agree that a lot of the West thought Dudaev was a Chechen Landsbergis, and I spent a fair bit of time explaining that, um, he wasn’t. So yes I think there was general condemnation of the bad Russian army against the liberationist Chechens. But I’m not sure now that almost any non-specialist understands the distinction between kadyrovtsy and federaly and boeviki. Do you? (I mean do you think they make any distinction?) On the other hand, I think I read awhile back that US military guys had a nice chat with their Russian counterparts to hear how “Chechenization” worked with an eye to applying it to Iraq. I remembered thinking: gee, isn’t there a nice desert island somewhere I can move to?

“The better test between us is to see who has formally appeared at venues where their written and spoken work has been placed. In posted exchanges, it’s clear that I’m the more knowledgeable. The voting result in the above quoted proposal would likely be dominated by those in this batch of exchanges which relate to me. I must have something on the ball for this crew to be concentrating their efforts in such a way. Granted the perverse aspects of it which don’t relate to me (see bottom note to Sean in 1240PM post for the details).”

Good God. Let me rewrite this so it appears as if written by a normal person.

The better contest between us would be to see whose written or spoken work* has appeared in respected venues. Judging by the exchanges that have appeared in this forum, it is clear that I am more knowledgeable than you are. The result of the voting you suggest in your proposal would likely be dominated by people who comment on this forum in the same places as I do.

I must be doing something right for this group of people to be concentrating their efforts in such a way.

(I cut off the last sentence, as its meaning is indecipherable.)

Now, wasn’t that better?

*What the hell is “spoken work,” anyway?

“mab on October 11, 2007 1:11 pm

I’m just trying so hard to be nice, concilliatory and self-deprecating. But it just doesn’t work. The thing is, MA, I do respond. But you just ignore what I write.”

****

Not at all. You just ignore what I write. The record shows that I engage in intelligent discussion related to the involved subject matter. The record also shows that I take a stand against troll like manner.

No, Mike, I’M THE FRAUD. I thought we all agreed on that so that we could discuss the matter at hand and not let Sean bust a gasket and close down the thread.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 11, 2007 1:13 pm”

****

The grammar Nazi hyppocrite, who has displayed numerous grammar faults of his own strikes again.

I’m writing shorthand here like others who error more often.

“But I’m not sure now that almost any non-specialist understands the distinction between kadyrovtsy and federaly and boeviki. Do you?”

Boeviki = gunmen fighting the Russian armed forces. They have different motivations (nationalism, attachment to Salafist Islam, desire for money, or it being the only thing they know how to do). There appear to be almost none left.

Federaly = soldiers in the Russian army.

Kadyrovsty = gunmen in the Chechen security services loyal to Ramzan Kadyrov and the Sufi teips and other clans gathered around him. Almost entirely former boeviki.

That’s my understanding.

Incidentally, the ease with which former rebels became security guys when the money got good makes me think that the role of Gulf money in financing the jihad was considerable. I think they were pretend jihadis, because if you strike a jihad pose that makes the cash roll in. Once the money flow from the Gulf dried up post 9-11 and being a security guy became more lucrative, they followed their wallets.

“mab on October 11, 2007 1:16 pm No, Mike, I’M THE FRAUD. I thought we all agreed on that so that we could discuss the matter at hand and not let Sean bust a gasket and close down the thread.”

****

Getting off topic again from what I matter of fact noted in the way you believed Russians to be so misinformed about former Yugoslavia when compared to more knowledgeable people like yourself.

You, who accused me of hijacking the discussion and belittling my background, instead of providing direct answers to my subject related replies.

“Error” is not a noun.

You don’t write shorthand. My much-improved version was the text was shorter than your shit original with the redundant text. Now go cower in fear before Ger and let me talk about Chechnya with Mab.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 11, 2007 1:24 pm “Error” is not a noun.

You don’t write shorthand. My much-improved version was the text was shorter than your shit original with the redundant text. Now go cower in fear before Ger and let me talk about Chechnya with Mab.”

***

The editor in need of editing strikes again. He showed no remorse when Wally followed up on his misunderstanding of the usages for “entitled” and “titled”. He has had a number of other such flops after trying to show his “worth”.

Somoene else suggested that his hypocritically faulty grammar Nazi antics are done to serve as a psychological cover for his weak intellectual capacity.

“Somoene else suggested that his hypocritically faulty grammar Nazi antics are done to serve as a psychological cover for his weak intellectual capacity.”

“Someone else” was you, Mike, o man who cowers in fear of Ger. Bwak-bwak-bwak.

Actually, error is a noun, it is not a verb. Somehow I am not surprised you didn’t notice the typo.

Seriously, why don’t you leave us alone? I am truly amazed at Sean’s patience, which appears to be of Herculean proportions.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 11, 2007 1:42 pm
‘Somoene else suggested that his hypocritically faulty grammar Nazi antics are done to serve as a psychological cover for his weak intellectual capacity.’

‘Someone else’ was you, Mike, o man who cowers in fear of Ger. Bwak-bwak-bwak.

Actually, error is a noun, it is not a verb. Somehow I am not surprised you didn’t notice the typo.

Seriously, why don’t you leave us alone? I am truly amazed at Sean’s patience, which appears to be of Herculean proportions.”

****

No Chris, that someone else wasn’t me and in reply to your question: there’s a definite place where you should be given your constant troll like interruptions and repeat claims of representing everyone. Unlike yourself, Sean and yours truly have twice collaborated on work that was featured at some relatively high profile venues.

Your sarcasm aside shows the divide a number of Russians have with your idea of what’s good media.

Eh? I was talking about the delays at the SEIC OPF at Lunskoye due to last minute design changes, and from this Mike is able to deduce my idea of good media?!!

Tim

For accuracy sake, here’s what was posted on that point in its entirety:

“Tim Newman on October 11, 2007 11:45 am I don’t even know what a frigging
GRP valve box is!

Exactly! Mike has been vindicated! Fancy not knowing what a GRP valve box
is, especially one related to the Sakhalin II OET. Next we’ll discover mab
lives in ignorance of the gas-in phase of the SEIC OPF at Lunskoye being
postponed by 12 months due to construction delays associated with
last-minute design changes!!

How she is a well published author on Russian affairs is anyone’s guess.
Were it not for the west bloc officials preventing the recognition of
parallel biases, Mike would have been given her job by now.”

****

If TMT was truly profit driven, it would stand to reason that they’d have
columnists with views in opposition to the ones they’ve favored. A number of them being quite flawed. Your sarcasm aside shows the divide a number of Russians have with your idea of what’s good media.

“Eh? I was talking about the delays at the SEIC OPF at Lunskoye due to last minute design changes, and from this Mike is able to deduce my idea of good media?!!”

Mike can also tell you what you had for dinner yesterday, and what your favorite color is.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 11, 2007 2:02 pm “Eh? I was talking about the delays at the SEIC OPF at Lunskoye due to last minute design changes, and from this Mike is able to deduce my idea of good media?!!”

Mike can also tell you what you had for dinner yesterday, and what your favorite color is.”

****

Chris can engage in prolonged troll like activity.

CM — no, I didn’t mean “do you know the difference” I meant “does anyone in the Western media know the difference.” I think (but may be wrong) that Chechnya is just understood as a place where Russians are doing bad things.

At which point you might ask: so why do you like Politkovskaya, whose work has contributed to the shaping of that view?

Because I think there should be people writing about what atrocities the Chechen boeviki do, and what the federaly do, and what the kadyrovtsy do, and who stole the previous 10 tranches of money, etc etc etc. That’s why I said we need many years to go by before a decent history of the conflict/region is written.

Meanwhile, I’ll let you guys continue to duke it out. I’m going to a party and correct the misaprehensions about my gender.

Sean, I tried. I really did. I kept bringing the conversation back to the gutter level, but it just didn’t work.

This thread is hilarious. Sean, thanks for your “Trotsky at the dinner table” vignette – historical fiction at its best. I laughed. I think a dinner involving the five most frequent commenters at this post could also end with someone resorting to an ice pick.

As for my five for dinner (I was thinking all at once, though I guess that would minimize the chances for quizzing about historical mysteries), the four I’m pretty sure about would be Peter I, Pushkin, Stalin and Vysotsky. Perhaps those are pretty banal choices, but I think each of those guys left some unanswered questions – plus, no one would be able to walk away from the table without stumbling (though Stalin might be looking for the phone to call and have everyone taken away – Peter as a rival and the other two as anti-Soviet). The fifth guest could be a civilizing influence, a trezvennik like Putin or Gorbachev, or it could be someone to take the party to another level – Rasputin, perhaps (though he would demand the presence of ladies), or Gagarin, or maybe the fictional drinking buddies from Vysotsky’s “Militseiskii Protokol.” Or maybe Pugachova (30-years-ago Pugachova) – she could do a little impromptu performance.

Or it could be a couples affair – Pushkin and his fictional Tatiana Larina, Vysotsky and Marina Vladi, and my dinner companion could be Zemfira – a safe “date” for a married man. The possibilities are endless if one considers thematic dinners. For example – the ’90s: Chubais, Gusinsky, Khodor, BAB and Mavrodi; maybe add Brigada’s Sasha Belyi as a fictional sixth. 1998-99 Prime Ministers would also make up an even five dinner guests. Chechnya: Imam Shamil’, Gen. Ermolov, Dudaev, Lebed’, and Kadyrov Jr. (at least one dagger would be drawn at such a fete, but you’d have to give the guys from longer ago a pre-dinner briefing on the current state of affairs). Or you could have Tolstoy, Pushkin, Lermontov, Griboedov and Bestuzhev-Marlinsky together to rap about the Caucasus from a slightly different perspective. Revolution/Civil War: Nicholas II, Kerensky, Lenin, John Reed (not a Russian, of course, but he fits) and maybe one of the characters from Bulgakov’s White Guard. Daydreaming about this is much more pleasant than reading the book in front of me (Federal Income Taxation of Corporations and Partnerships).

Actually, it would probably be enough for me to just have five people from within the boundaries of the Russian Empire/Soviet Union selected at random from various historical periods and walks of life.

Mike, who would you invite to such a dinner? Sharapova, Suvorov and Vlasov, no doubt, but who else?

Equal-opportunity assumption-making:

mab’s dinner guests would include Shishkov and Karamzin; ivanov’s would include “Polkovnik” and Aushev (to quiz them about Beslan, of course); Ger’s would include Mendeleev and Tsvet; Tim’s would include Alekperov (the only real oilman among the oiligarchs); Chris’s would include Red Son and at least one Cossack; and Sean’s would include Yakemenko and at least one of Tsetlin, Ryvkin, Shatskin, Smorodin or Chaplin (all Komsomol leaders between 1918 and 1928 – thanks, Ru.Wikipedia – and all later victims of the purges).

Простите, если что-то не так.

Mike,

come out and fight! I quadruple dog dared you. Mike, the readers would be objective -trust in people. You’re always banging on how much a better analyst and journalist than me that you are. Now PROVE it. Talk is cheap. I’m an amateur – what are you afraid of? The essay, up to say 1500 words, must be written and submitted by monday 12pm New York time. The readers can judge it on style, content, everything. If you refuse to take up this challenge, then I think its fair to say that you should no longer call yourself a better analyst than me or anyone else. If you’ve got the balls, do it; if you dont, then dont ever slag any of us off again as being your inferiour. Fair enough? Come out and fight like a man, Mike!!

Chris – will MA take up the challenge, or is it really Ger>Mike?)

MAB – you’re just totally cool. I genuinely mean that.

Lyndon, mine would be Sharapova, Buzova and Oksana from Spakoinoi Noche! mmm!

Ger, I said dinner guests, not banya companions

Sean, Ivan Grozny and the buntari are great ideas (do you think Razin would drink the swill they bottle under his name in SPB?) – actually this sort of scenario (a collision between the old and the modern worlds) was sort of played out with Ivan in “Ivan Vasilievich Meniaet Professiiu.”

Oh, and I bet if you plan ahead that you could meet with Yashin when you’re next in Moscow – just contact him through his LJ.

I could have an all-Cossack dinner party! Stenka Razin, Emil Pugachev, Mikhail Sholokov, Alyona what’s-her-name who won the Miss Donskaya Kazachka beauty contest a couple of years ago (I’m not kidding), and — who else? — not Bogdan Chmelnitsky. He was too much of a pogromshik. Aha, stupid me — Ataman Platov.

I wrote:

“Alyona what’s-her-name who won the Miss Donskaya Kazachka beauty contest a couple of years ago (I’m not kidding),”

See?: 29.12.04, 10.16
Конкурс “Донская Казачка – 2004″.

Даешь природную женскую красоту вместо запчастей из силикона! Западные стандарты нам не пример! Так говорят казаки о своем конкурсе “Донская Казачка – 2004″.

Владимир Воронин, начальник управления идеологии и информации ВКО ВВД:

В отличие от западных конкурсов, где оценивают тело, как у коровы, мы оцениваем душу.

Соответственно исходной установке проводятся и конкурсы. Оценивается, как девушка готовит, как управляется с хозяйством, как историю свою знает. Донская казачка – она особая.

Участниц – десять. Номинаций и призов тоже десять. Без подарка не уехал никто. Видеокамеры, музыкальные центры, домашние кинотеатры. Плюс каждой по чайнику. А победительницей стала Зинаида Зацарева из станицы Тацинской. Её вообще послали… в турпоездку за границу – в Париж. В нагрузку – телевизор. Чтобы не скучала.

Владимир Воронин, начальник управления идеологии и информации ВКО ВВД:

Пусть мир на наших посмотрит. Кстати, в первых конкурсах красоты во Франции побеждали донские казачки.

А вот модельные агентства к победительницам интерес проявляют зря. Вот что говорит “серебрянный призер” Алёна Яцук:

Алена Яцук:

Это не мое. Я буду продолжать дело возрождения казачества

Hey! There’s another one going on right now!

«Донской красавицей» может стать воронежская казачка
Категория: Личный интерес, 5 октября 2007, 12:57

Вчера в конно-спортивном комплексе «Спартак» прошел первый тур финала конкурса «Донская красавица».

18 девушек продемонстрировали казачье умение лихо гарцевать на лошадях в конкурсе «Казачка-амазонка». Среди красавиц нашлись настоящие профессионалы: Уткина Светлана блеснула стойкой в полный рост на лошади и «ножницами». Кстати, Светлана, наверное, первая в России девушка-кадет и в Каширском казачьем кадетском корпусе выполняет все спортивные нормативы наравне с юношами. В том числе вместе с ними она была в конном походе протяженностью 500 км. Другие девушки спортивные умения заменяли творческими: одна из конкурсанток выполнила задание, не пуская коня Оренбурга в галоп, но распевая гимн России.

Следующий конкурс будет кулинарным — «Казачка хлебосольная». Девушкам сегодня, 5 октября, предстоит на кострах приготовить блюда традиционной казачьей кухни. А в субботу, 6 октября, в ДК Железнодорожников выберут Донскую красавицу.

Кстати, число участниц постоянно пополняется. Например, буквально с поезда на сцену попадет девушка из Астрахани. «Наша задача, чтобы в конкурсе было представлено как можно больше казачек России, поэтому правилами не запрещается пропускать некоторые этапы. Просто у вновь прибывшей девушки будет меньше суммарных баллов к началу торжественного финала», — пояснил организатор конкурса Николай Сапелкин. А еще вне конкурсной программы выступит барышня, недавно вышедшая замуж. По правилам конкурса девушки могут быть невестами, но не женами. Также по контракту во время конкурса и год после него девушкам не разрешено курить и сниматься в обнаженном виде.

Кстати, в конкурсе есть пока неявные лидеры. «ЛГ» попросил девушек сделать прогноз, кто станет победительницей, и большинство первое место отдали бы (кроме себя) Виктории Спиридоновой из Воронежа. Проголосовать за донских красавиц можно здесь.

Hey, these women are babes. I miss Rostov.

Vote for the best-looking kazachka!

http://vrn.best-city.ru/photoalbum/donskaya_krasavica/album609/?page=1

Could you guys offer a link to a MAB column?

I’m largely out of the loop, the last time I was in Russia was during Yeltsyn–times, it seems, Russians want to forget.

MAB, by any chance, do you know Sue Folger?

http://www.google.ru/search?complete=1&hl=ru&q=%22michele+berdy%22&btnG=%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BA+%D0%B2+Google&lr=&aq=null

That was easy.

Well, I just went to the Moscow Times site and saw a link to MAB’s column (on apples, this time). Didn’t read it. You have to pay for a subscription to have access to it. Bummer.

It’s amusing that I still have the Moscow Times t-shirt they gave me during their opening bash, either in 91 or 92, at the Baltschug Kempinski. My guess is that compared to all of you, I’m an old coot.

An indication of my low IQ. Thanks, Chris!

“You have to pay for a subscription to have access to it. Bummer.”

Here’s a little trick.

Maybe they’ve fixed it, but a few years ago an article would be blocked if you accessed it via their website and didn’t have a subscription. However, if you accessed the article via google, you would have no problem.

Not, of course, that I would ever engage in such a travesty myself!

mab on October 11, 2007 11:29 am
Ivanov thinks I’m wrong, wrong, wrong,

You are wrong.
I think that you are only 0.01 wrong (not 3 wrongs as you thought)…

I remembered thinking: gee, isn’t there a nice desert island somewhere I can move to?

I know one

Lyndon, mine would be Sharapova, Buzova and Oksana from Spakoinoi Noche! mmm!

Bad Ger!! Naughty Irishman!! (Thwack thwack thwack!!) You should know better, married to a Russian and all that, to so much as acknowledge the mere existence of other women.

I recall the bollocking I once got when I confessed that I had recently engaged in conversation with a Russian girl who spoke English very well. “Better than me?!!!”, was the immediate response.

Ger, I said dinner guests, not banya companions.

WTF?!! Surely we are supposed to go somewhere after dinner! That’s my choice of Ana, Olga, Tanya, Nadya, and Luda from my office out of my selection then.

Regarding the choice of selecting three past and present prominent Russians for dinner guests, here was my answer at another venue:

Maria Sharapova, Sergey Lavrov and Catherine the Great. From a distance, all three appear to be lively interesting sorts. I’m a bit of a fitness buff and would like to discuss training methods with Sharapova. Lavrov’s frank comments on foreign policy and other matters get my thumbs’ up. I gather that Catherine the Great was a great all around conversationalist.

———————————————-

Regarding MAB’s comments on the supposed Russian media faults regarding the coverage of former Yugoslavia, here’s an excellent article from Nebojsa Malic:

http://antiwar.com/malic/

On the subject of former Yugoslavia, TMT tends to slant along the lines of The NYT.

———————————————-

“Irishman on October 11, 2007 4:52 pm

Mike,

come out and fight! I quadruple dog dared you. Mike, the readers would be objective -trust in people. You’re always banging on how much a better analyst and journalist than me that you are. Now PROVE it. Talk is cheap. I’m an amateur – what are you afraid of? The essay, up to say 1500 words, must be written and submitted by monday 12pm New York time. The readers can judge it on style, content, everything. If you refuse to take up this challenge, then I think its fair to say that you should no longer call yourself a better analyst than me or anyone else. If you’ve got the balls, do it; if you dont, then dont ever slag any of us off again as being your inferiour. Fair enough? Come out and fight like a man, Mike!!

Chris – will MA take up the challenge, or is it really Ger>Mike?)

MAB – you’re just totally cool. I genuinely mean that.”

*****

The above quoted is a repeat of his earlier warped bravado. He sidesteps the answer already given. A sign of poor comprehension and demagoguery on his part.

I leave for a couple of months and lo, there is still a thread about Mike…

MAB, I might be wrong but music-wise, it should be этоГО не может быть потому, что этоГО не может быть никогда

As for Mike’s English, Mike – not picking on you at all – but why do you use passive voice so much? After living in the US for a while I realized how much passive voice was/is the norm in Russian, but hardly in English. It became that chicken or the egg thing for me – how much does abundance of passive voice reflect cultural imperatives and role expectations in Russian culture.

Cyrill

Cyrill:

I prefer the finess game myself. Some others choose to take a different rout.

Russian ice hockey has changed from Soviet times. It has become more hybrid in its adopting the kind of play that has been more typically found among North Americans.

If someone cheap shots you, they should expect it right back. Especially, if the ref. isn’t calling any penalties on the side initiating chippy play.

Pardon misspell of finesse and welcome back Cyrill.

Among others, I gave your name when a producer corresponded with me about a show dealing with English speaking Rusisans who disagree with me.

As per the recent ice hockey reference: in the late 1980s the Soviets had noticeably utilized a more hybrid (hit and finesse) game.

I am struggling to liken this thread to an ice hockey game. It seems more like a turkey shoot to me.

Among other analogies, I often go with the flow. Swimming in rough water is different from swimming in an Olympic designed pool.

Swimming in rough water is different from swimming in an Olympic designed pool.

Never let it be said that this blog isn’t a fountain of knowledge which can’t be found elsewhere.

Mike, it might be my lack of English but I have to admit, you are way over my head. I have no clue what you meant by referencing ice hockey. I was askinug about passive voice. Could you elaborate? (for example, why would you add the extraneous word “designed” in the middle of the standard cross cultural “Olymic pool”?)

Tim, if you are ever in the San Francisco area, please drop by. I really like your style but the turkey shoot metaphor made me feel really uneasy. I would like to introduce you to some turkeys here in Santa Cruz. We have Angela Davis teaching Mraxism in our UC campus.

“Tim Newman on October 12, 2007 7:01 am ‘Swimming in rough water is different from swimming in an Olympic designed pool.’

Never let it be said that this blog isn’t a fountain of knowledge which can’t be found elsewhere”

****

So true. Like this one directly below:

“Tim Newman on October 12, 2007 6:10 am I am struggling to liken this thread to an ice hockey game. It seems more like a turkey shoot to me.”

———————————————-

Cyrill:

On the Olympic pool versus Olympic designed pool example, I don’t dabble much with “On Language” (Bill Safire/MAB) discussed matters.

I comment on other topics of greater interest to me.

Tim, if you are ever in the San Francisco area, please drop by.

I most certainly will. We’re planning a trip to California some time next year.

On the Olympic pool versus Olympic designed pool example, I don’t dabble much with “On Language” (Bill Safire/MAB) discussed matters.

Never let it be said that you don’t make your points with clarity, Mike.

Lyndon:

Pardon my oversight of your last set of comments addressed to me. You were two for three in your prediction. Vlasov and Suvorov could serve as add ons to my previously mentioned Sharapova, Lavrov and Catherine.

“Tim Newman on October 12, 2007 7:32 am On the Olympic pool versus Olympic designed pool example, I don’t dabble much with “On Language” (Bill Safire/MAB) discussed matters.

Never let it be said that you don’t make your points with clarity, Mike.”

****

Not always Tim. For me the goal is to be as up front and earnest as possible. Too much phoney/manipulative horseshit out there.

Mike,

I did read your earlier responses, and they were cop-outs. Up to you if you want to back down from a challenge. Just keep your sanctimonious ”i’m more intelligent/better analyst etc” rubbish to yourself from now on. You’ve been called out, refused to take the dare, and therefore dont have a leg to stand on. And anyway, I’m convinced I’d take you to the cleaners in such a competition.

Cyrll:

On Angela Davis, in the late 1980s, I knew the Cold War was over when Gennady Gerasimov sounded like a right wing Repub. to Davis and Alex Cockburn, during a NightLine show.

———————————————-

“Irishman on October 12, 2007 8:01 am Mike,

I did read your earlier responses, and they were cop-outs. Up to you if you want to back down from a challenge. Just keep your sanctimonious ‘i’m more intelligent/better analyst etc’ rubbish to yourself from now on. You’ve been called out, refused to take the dare, and therefore dont have a leg to stand on. And anyway, I’m convinced I’d take you to the cleaners in such a competition”

****

The above quoted is a legend in his own mind.

MAB, I might be wrong but music-wise, it should be этоГО не может быть потому, что этоГО не может быть никогда

This is actually a quote from Chekhov’s story “Письмо к ученому соседу”.

”The above quoted is a legend in his own mind.”

I thought that quote was written by LR about you!) No legend in my mind at all Mike, but I know I could take you on and turn you over. No problem. You backed down – remember that.

“Irishman on October 12, 2007 8:07 am

‘The above quoted is a legend in his own mind.’

I thought that quote was written by LR about you!) No legend in my mind at all Mike, but I know I could take you on and turn you over. No problem. You backed down – remember that.”

****

Blah, blah, blah… Now, he’s quoting an anonymous bigot as a reference to support his warped machinations. He thinks he’s hot shit for writing one column. Let him start getting picked up by other venues (Reuters, JRL, AUR) and receive invites to 50K watt and over radio shows.

Mike,

I’ve never said I was an analyst, or indeed or superior intellect to anyone here. You, on the other hand, do this all the time, especially when losing an argument. You backed down. End of story. By the way, thought you were censored by JRL?

By the way have you ever been turned down by the TMT?

“Irishman on October 12, 2007 8:20 am Mike,

I’ve never said I was an analyst, or indeed or superior intellect to anyone here. You, on the other hand, do this all the time, especially when losing an argument. You backed down. End of story. By the way, thought you were censored by JRL?

By the way have you ever been turned down by the TMT?”

****

You keep rehashing the same bullshit. Try questioning my analysis instead of repeating the same bullshit. Matter that has been previously answered.

Sean:

I once again tryed staying on topic. I’m not responsibe for his manner. If you want a qualitatively better thread, you should be fair in your periodic interventions.

As proof, I brought to your attention two other thread discussions.

Fair enough. I can take that as a yes. Mike, I’m calling you out here, for the simple reason that all over this blog for a long time you have been complaining about censorship. And I think you’re being disingenous. Its my own belief that if the TMT published you, you’d have no complaints about it at all. I firmly believe this is an issue here. You’ve polluted this blog with censorship nonsense for a long time now. WRT TMT, Mike, I dont know what you think the functions of newspaper are. I do know that the Op-Ed of the TMT is not pro-Kremlin, and so what? Newspapers are not produced to sing the praises of governments. They are there to report and criticize. The Irish Times does not have an ‘Irishocentric’ bias. Its job is to report the news and evaluate. The TMT is not there to tell us all how great Putin is and to apologise for war criminals in Serbia and make exucuses for the Bandit Government of the PMR. Your problem is not censorship -its market. No-one wants to hear how great Slobodan Milosevic or Radovan Karadic is, or how Srebrenica was a hoax and the rapes didnt happen. Because that stuff is lies and bullshit.

Sean, sorry for making an issue out of this, but I can listen to him no more. This disingenous censorship nonsense, coupled with rudeness and disrespect to MAB(who is simply light years ahead of you on Russian affairs)just irritates me.

“Irishman on October 12, 2007 8:40 am Fair enough. I can take that as a yes. Mike, I’m calling you out here, for the simple reason that all over this blog for a long time you have been complaining about censorship. And I think you’re being disingenous. Its my own belief that if the TMT published you, you’d have no complaints about it at all. I firmly believe this is an issue here. You’ve polluted this blog with censorship nonsense for a long time now. WRT TMT, Mike, I dont know what you think the functions of newspaper are. I do know that the Op-Ed of the TMT is not pro-Kremlin, and so what? Newspapers are not produced to sing the praises of governments. They are there to report and criticize. The Irish Times does not have an ‘Irishocentric’ bias. Its job is to report the news and evaluate. The TMT is not there to tell us all how great Putin is and to apologise for war criminals in Serbia and make exucuses for the Bandit Government of the PMR. Your problem is not censorship -its market. No-one wants to hear how great Slobodan Milosevic or Radovan Karadic is, or how Srebrenica was a hoax and the rapes didnt happen. Because that stuff is lies and bullshit.

Sean, sorry for making an issue out of this, but I can listen to him no more. This disingenous censorship nonsense, coupled with rudeness and disrespect to MAB(who is simply light years ahead of you on Russian affairs)just irritates me.”

****

Same rehashed bullshit as before.

It very much overlooks what I’d matter of fact said on issues like Srebrenica.

Overlooks the rudeness that some others and himself have displayed towards me.

If others can can talk about media flaws (real and imagined), than so can I. My media critiques are fact based

Mike,

your tactics – name calling, shitty or non-existent sources (‘those in the know are more intelligent than you etc’), straw men and being factually challenged are always going to get a strong response. Please explain how your media critiques are fact based – why exactly is the TMT biased, and what do you think its function is?

”Same rehashed bullshit as before.”

No, it isnt. I re-iterate: why should the TMT sing the praises of the Kremlin, give compliments and excuse Serb war crimes and dignify the illegal PMR state? Why exactly?

“Irishman on October 12, 2007 8:56 am Mike,

your tactics – name calling, shitty or non-existent sources (’those in the know are more intelligent than you etc’), straw men and being factually challenged are always going to get a strong response. Please explain how your media critiques are fact based – why exactly is the TMT biased, and what do you think its function is?”

***

As he continues withn lies and other troll like antics.

Note how he doesn’t directly reply to the fact based analysis which was earlier presented on TMT and The NYT, relative to the coverage of former Yugo. For MAB’s benefit (since she made a comment about the former Yugo. coverage), I linked Nebojsa’s malic’s recent article. Prior to that Aleks and yours truly referenced some Srebrenica related points which she didn’t reply to.

Now, the above quoted, ONCE AGAIN trolls with the above quoted rehased bullshit which is “name calling, shitty or non-existent sources (’those in the know are more intelligent than you etc’), straw men and being factually challenged.”

Kolya — not only do I know Sue Folger, we were room mates on the ACTR program in Moscow about a thousand years ago. She’s great. You can access my column free every Friday; then TMT makes you pay, but as CM pointed out, it gets stolen and can be usually found through Google. My desktop computer died and I haven’t gotten the files taken out, so when I want an old article, I just Google. It’s great, this total lack of respect for intellectual property rights.
Cyrill — yeah, technically should probably use the genative with a negation, but that’s changing these days and I’ve been infected by colloquial Russian. I’ve also been infected by как бы, which I’m trying to ban from my speech but can’t.
Lyndon, actually I like your list for the same reasons. I wouldn’t want Tolstoy or Dostoevsky, because I think I know what they were like (and I’d probably shove Tolstoy’s face in his soup once he started in about the Perfect Wife), but I can’t quite grasp Pushkin or Peter I. I’ve read so much about them, but I’m not sure I really know what they were like. Sean, I’d also like to invite Mayakovsky, so maybe we could give him latex gloves. I’d also like to meet Chekhov. All these guys were serious lady-killers, so that might be quite pleasant. I’d probably invite Teffi to help with the flirtation. I have an affinity for her writing, and would have liked to have met her.

CM why were you in Rostov?

Ivanov — where’s your island?

Meanwhile, I have the worst frigging hangover. When will I learn? Do not mix wine and cognac, do not mix wine and cognac, do not mix wine and cognac…

“Irishman on October 12, 2007 9:00 am ‘Same rehashed bullshit as before.’

No, it isnt. I re-iterate: why should the TMT sing the praises of the Kremlin, give compliments and excuse Serb war crimes and dignify the illegal PMR state? Why exactly?”

***

Yes, the above quoted is rehashing the same troll like delivery.

The “illegal PMR state” has noticeably more legitimate aspects than the Kosovo Albanian government. Points which I’ve previously detailed.

Ditto the flawed NYT coverage of former Yugo. and some other issues including the former USSR. Points which I’ve previously detailed. The same has been the case with TMT. Points which I’ve previously detailed.

‘Points which I’ve previously detailed’

with no detail, as usual. The PMR is an illegal entity, end of story. And you havent explained at all how TMT is biased. Basically, it wont publish your stuff. Thats your problem. Its not censorship, its quality control. Maybe if you write a decent article, with some sort of style, and stop name-calling people like PL, DJ and other journalists, maybe you will get published someday. Or instead you can keep calling everyone who criticises you trolls. Suit yourself. Bet I get published in print media before you do.

I know I will regret this… but… TMT actually likes to include a wide variety of opinion on the op-ed page and has two pages for it. The reporting is hard. And since it’s a daily, you gotta file or else there’s a hole in the paper. So a reporter goes to an event like a press conference, tries to figure out the main points, comes back, tries to call a variety of people for comments, pro and con, translates the comments, writes it up. Then since about half the reporters are Russian, their English needs to be edited. Sometimes you get a sense of the full picture; sometimes you don’t. But try to describe, say, the annual presidential address in 1200 words and 4 hours. People ask why you can’t do a better job, and I always say: try it some time and find out how hard it is.

“Irishman on October 12, 2007 9:27 am ‘Points which I’ve previously detailed’

with no detail, as usual. The PMR is an illegal entity, end of story. And you havent explained at all how TMT is biased. Basically, it wont publish your stuff. Thats your problem. Its not censorship, its quality control. Maybe if you write a decent article, with some sort of style, and stop name-calling people like PL, DJ and other journalists, maybe you will get published someday. Or instead you can keep calling everyone who criticises you trolls. Suit yourself. Bet I get published in print media before you do.”

***

Crap like above certainly won’t make it. He continues to make broad unsubstantiated points unlike my fact based commentary.

———————————————-

MAB

Awhile back, the issue of Russia’s emblem being “too Christian” was claimed. TMTs’ coverage of that story was slanted in a direction favoring that view. The then editor thanked me for my submission, adding that TMT doesn’t post such views. Another Moscow Eng. lang. outlet offered to post it minus $$$. I declined on the principle that they should’ve and could’ve paid.

Yes, TMT will run different commentary from their norm. However, there clearly is a general slant that runs contary to mainstream Russian views. I’m by no means the only one who has expressed this view.

However, there clearly is a general slant that runs contary to mainstream Russian views.

Erm, don’t you usually make the complaint that the western media only follows the mainstream and doesn’t allow for dissenting views? Now you are complaining that a paper doesn’t follow the mainstream!

“Tim Newman on October 12, 2007 9:57 am However, there clearly is a general slant that runs contrary to mainstream Russian views.

Erm, don’t you usually make the complaint that the western media only follows the mainstream and doesn’t allow for dissenting views? Now you are complaining that a paper doesn’t follow the mainstream!”

****

I actually touched on this very point before at this thread:

“mab on October 10, 2007 5:04 pm Well, Ivanov, you probably are one of the few. If you read newspapers, runet and internet stuff, you do know more than most people. But the number of journalists writing about Chechnya regularly or only about Chechnya is only a tiny percent of journalists in the country.

Michael Averko on October 11, 2007 4:41 am By Russian standards (as in what interests most Russians), what other top rated rated stories are out there?

This relates to how Western mass media elites typically rationalize their overall prioritization of news coverage and editorial content.

On the American national level, New Orleans is no longer being widely written about.”

****

I thought the above to be perfectly legit. As the record shows, a barrage of troll like activity followed.

As a Moscow based but non-Russian owned media source, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for TMT to be somewhat different in slant from The WP and NYT. BTW, and for whatever it’s worth (for discussion purposes), RTTV gears itself away from what Russian mass media covers.

”Awhile back, the issue of Russia’s emblem being “too Christian” was claimed. TMTs’ coverage of that story was slanted in a direction favoring that view. The then editor thanked me for my submission, adding that TMT doesn’t post such views. Another Moscow Eng. lang. outlet offered to post it minus $$$. I declined on the principle that they should’ve and could’ve paid.”

Means ”they turned me down”

As a Moscow based but non-Russian owned media source, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for TMT to be somewhat different in slant from The WP and NYT.

Well, no, it’s not. But it is not unreasonable for TMT to be of similar slant than the WP and NYT either. After all, there being no connection between these publications whatsoever save for the fact that both are written in English, it is a reasonable assumption that the TMT and NYT arrived at their slant quite independently, and probably quite sensibly.

Unless, of course, we enter into the realms of crackpot conspiracy theories whereby the slant of English language newspapers worldwide is controlled by some nefarious cabal somewhere, as opposed to the readership and their wallets.

Hi Mab, tend to your hangover!

I was in Rostov-na-Donu twice for about a week each time. I have a personal interest in the history of the Cossacks, and that area is obviously central to it, ergo…

“how much does abundance of passive voice reflect cultural imperatives and role expectations in Russian culture.”

Well, lots of languages use the passive voice a lot. Latin does. So does French. (Maybe Romance languages in general? Dunno — I don’t know Spanish etc.)

Ah, CM, seems to be a personal interest in Cossack babes, too:)

You know, it’s always interesting to see how things seem on the outside and from the outside things always seem more organized than they are. I mean, newsrooms, be they NYT WP or TMT don’t sit around and say, “Okay, what’s our slant on this? Let’s campaign against X or Y.” They are actually running around like chickens with their heads cut off because the photographer screwed up and a reporter is sick and no one will give a comment on a story and three columnists have filed late and the in-depth piece won’t be ready for two more days and the other piece sucks and has to be redone. And oh shit we gotta run an editorial tomorrow — anyone got any ideas? Nah, we wrote about that already. Well, we could write about that, but what are we going to say — war is bad? Give me a break. Come on, people, think…This is pretty much what happens everywhere, no matter what nationality, although as I have written, there are other, um, factors in the Russian media these days. But it’s just people trying to get the damn paper to the printers on time.

oh yeah, Tim, you’re right. You also have to keep an eye on your demographics and write about stuff that interests them. If you don’t they stop buying your paper.

Actually my interest in Cossackdom predates my actually having dated one. I have a huge beautiful book I picked up in Rostov that is a reprint of a book published in 1907 by the Don Host Publishing House all about famous Dons. Really fascinating history.

Anyway, I’m not really sure that a public forum is the place to discuss someone’s employer, but there is a notable tendency among MT journalists to import their interpretation of events into their reporting. For instance, instead of “Vladimir Putin said x today,” we get “In what appears to be an authoritarian move, Vladimir Putin said x today.” I chock this up to inexperience, but when I was wearing my Russia Journal copy-editor hat that’s the kind of stuff I would take out.

MAB

Go and have sto gramma. You know it makes sense)))! Liked your article this week.

“I mean, newsrooms, be they NYT WP or TMT don’t sit around and say, “Okay, what’s our slant on this? Let’s campaign against X or Y.””

Well, I think the editorial department does.

“Irishman on October 12, 2007 10:11 am
‘Awhile back, the issue of Russia’s emblem being ‘too Christian’ was claimed. TMTs’ coverage of that story was slanted in a direction favoring that view. The then editor thanked me for my submission, adding that TMT doesn’t post such views. Another Moscow Eng. lang. outlet offered to post it minus $$$. I declined on the principle that they should’ve and could’ve paid.’

Means ‘they turned me down’”

*****

Means they admitted to having a slant on the issue.

———————————————-

“Tim Newman on October 12, 2007 10:16 am
As a Moscow based but non-Russian owned media source, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for TMT to be somewhat different in slant from The WP and NYT.

Well, no, it’s not. But it is not unreasonable for TMT to be of similar slant than the WP and NYT either. After all, there being no connection between these publications whatsoever save for the fact that both are written in English, it is a reasonable assumption that the TMT and NYT arrived at their slant quite independently, and probably quite sensibly.

Unless, of course, we enter into the realms of crackpot conspiracy theories whereby the slant of English language newspapers worldwide is controlled by some nefarious cabal somewhere, as opposed to the readership and their wallets.”

****

My naïve side seeks having the given views on a subject having as much a say as possible. On the business side, this diversity likely attracts greater popularity. Many media outfits are agenda driven in a way that hinders this environment.

Yeah, gotta have some hair of the dog… thanks… glad you liked the column. Well, CM, there is also the need to say “what does this mean?” I think it’s kind of a lose-lose situation right now, because it’s all reading tea leaves. Gideon Lichfield once wrote a hillarious piece about trying to file a story here — will try to dig up the link. It shows what a conscientious reporter goes through trying to figure out “what does this mean?”

“Well, I think the editorial department does.”
Yes, you’re right. And TMT is on the side of the angels.
Now that should piss everyone off! Gotta run!

“Yeah, gotta have some hair of the dog… thanks… glad you liked the column. Well, CM, there is also the need to say “what does this mean?” I think it’s kind of a lose-lose situation right now, because it’s all reading tea leaves. Gideon Lichfield once wrote a hillarious piece about trying to file a story here — will try to dig up the link. It shows what a conscientious reporter goes through trying to figure out “what does this mean?””

This is really a philosophical issue, but I don’t think figuring out what it means is the journalist’s job. That’s the reader’s job. And, sadly, in 95% of cases neither the journalist nor the reader is knowledgeable enough to do it competently.

I speak from experience! God knows I used to write a lot of crap.

“Gideon Lichfield once wrote a hillarious piece about trying to file a story here”

I read that piece. It was pretty funny.

Tim:

To add on the media discussion, a number of media outlets are acquired from forces that have already made a ton of money. For them, the media outlet becomes something like a toy. Similar to the way a number of owners of professional sports teams operate. In the media instance, it can also reflect the politics of the owner in a way that hinders diversity and yes, the potential for a greater readership. I prefer the eclectic route. Media owners and their management teams don’t always take the same attitude. A number of media outlets are largely staffed with people of like minds in departments influencing the final product.

Cyrill:

As a follow-up to your point on the passive, those actively challenging the existing status quo tend to have to be more on guard when compared to others, whose views aren’t as challenged.

Mike,

I do genuinely appreciate that you feel that positive things about Russia are perhaps not as prevalent in the media as negative things are. But remember Russia as a country is not the finished article like Norway or Iceland. There are plenty of bad things to write about, and this is a fact of life. Also, realistically, people in, say, Denmark, dont really want to hear great things about, say, France in the media. There isnt really a market for positive news!) It sounds a bit weird, but that seems to be the way it is. Now I know that you feel Russia gets a bad press in US mass media. But who gets a good press? Britain? Funny, cos Britain is an ally of the US. Every country has their own agendas. In the case of the TMT, I think myself they are calling things as they see them, and their western journalists perhaps see faults that a pro-Russian person wouldnt. Mike I’m not anti-Russian at all, but I want to read objective stuff; no one wants to read that everything is great when frankly it isnt. As well as that the TMT is aimed at westerners – in many ways, its function seems to be to contrast with western opinion how the Russians do things. I think censorship is the wrong word though.

I am starting to get the sneaking suspicion that Mike does not know what the passive voice is.

Well, Norway’s not really a finished product either. One could write a lot about neofascist in Scandinavia. The amount of violence directed against foreigners (Africans etc.) in Sweden is about as high as in Russia, when adjusted for population.

PS. Ger > Mike

Tim:

Still yet, another point to add and one that’s shared by Mark Ames. When compared to their Russian media counterparts, English language mass media folks are generally more stuck up on the notion that their media is the better one in terms of objectivity and that they’re therefore the better informed. This attitude creates an environment where the many faults within English language mass media aren’t discussed. Steven Lee Myers’ scolding of Nick Petro in defense of the idea that journalists don’t make up stories is one of many examples. Myers apparently forget about Jayson Blair. On any number of issues, “the paper of record” and other such orgs. have that’s far from objective. What happened to Ashleigh Banfield is certainly not the only case of someone having their career nixed for going against the grain in an otherwise legitimate way.

———————————————-

“Chrisius Maximus on October 12, 2007 12:12 pm PS. Ger > Mike”

***

PS Chris = troll

———————————————-

“Mike,

I do genuinely appreciate that you feel that positive things about Russia are perhaps not as prevalent in the media as negative things are. But remember Russia as a country is not the finished article like Norway or Iceland. There are plenty of bad things to write about, and this is a fact of life. Also, realistically, people in, say, Denmark, dont really want to hear great things about, say, France in the media. There isnt really a market for positive news!) It sounds a bit weird, but that seems to be the way it is. Now I know that you feel Russia gets a bad press in US mass media. But who gets a good press? Britain? Funny, cos Britain is an ally of the US. Every country has their own agendas. In the case of the TMT, I think myself they are calling things as they see them, and their western journalists perhaps see faults that a pro-Russian person wouldnt. Mike I’m not anti-Russian at all, but I want to read objective stuff; no one wants to read that everything is great when frankly it isnt. As well as that the TMT is aimed at westerners – in many ways, its function seems to be to contrast with western opinion how the Russians do things. I think censorship is the wrong word though.”

***

I think we can agree that there’s room for an all around improvement. It starts with frank honesty and not the manipulative behind the scene unwritten rules which exist.

Without meaning to have an ongoing flame war, I can and have backed up my stated points. I do so in as fair and open a way as possible. Like appearing in live discussions where the table is slanted oppposite of my views. A number of my views reflect how most Russians feel. This leads to how some non-Rusians can spend a good deal of time in Russia without ever getting to really understand the basis of some of those views.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 12, 2007 12:07 pm I am starting to get the sneaking suspicion that Mike does not know what the passive voice is.”

****

No need to be suspicious about one of Chris’ agendas at these threads.

MAB, great that you know Sue Folger! I live in Vermont now, but missed her during her last trip to New England this summer. Sue has a heart of gold. When she lived in Moscow sometimes I would stay at her place for weeks at a time, and thanks to her I got a brief gig as a fixer for CBS News Moscow. Who knows, MAB, maybe we’ve met in person.

I read (and printed) a few of your columns. The guys here are absolutely right: they are a delight to read! Hey, today is Friday! Right after this I’ll read your new one.

—–

Kids, why do you waste your time with Averko? Out of pity? As negative as it is, he needs your attention. Well, perhaps you’re only having fun. I suspect that CM has a jolly good time with Averko, but I’m not sure about the rest of you.

“Kids, why do you waste your time with Averko? Out of pity? As negative as it is, he needs your attention. Well, perhaps you’re only having fun. I suspect that CM has a jolly good time with Averko, but I’m not sure about the rest of you.”

He’s funny as hell.

Excerpt from Kolya:

“Kids, why do you waste your time with Averko? Out of pity? As negative as it is, he needs your attention. Well, perhaps you’re only having fun. I suspect that CM has a jolly good time with Averko, but I’m not sure about the rest of you.”

****

Another blowhard like rant from Kolya.

———————————————-

“hrisius Maximus on October 12, 2007 12:36 pm ‘ids, why do you waste your time with Averko? Out of pity? As negative as it is, he needs your attention. Well, perhaps you’re only having fun. I suspect that CM has a jolly good time with Averko, but I’m not sure about the rest of you.’

He’s funny as hell.”

****

To Chris’ pathetic as hell.

“To Chris’ pathetic as hell.”

This is not a grammatical sentence. See, what this should have been is something like “as opposed to Chris’ being pathetic as hell” or “whereas Chris is pathetic as hell.” That’s still grade-school level wit, but at least is it readable.

“Chrisius Maximus on October 12, 2007 12:42 pm ‘To Chris’ pathetic as hell.’

This is not a grammatical sentence. See, what this should have been is something like ‘as opposed to Chris’ being pathetic as hell’ or ‘whereas Chris is pathetic as hell.’ That’s still grade-school level wit, but at least is it readable.”

****

He proves me right again. Never mind his previously flawed claims on grammar.

His selective obsession with grammar (which often times holds to incorrect views) is quite nerdy.

Such is the life of a so-so editor.

Thus speaks the coward who backed down from a quadruple-dog dare! Has your family renounced you yet?

I can picture the scene now. Mike’s momz, wracked with sobs: “Mike, you backed down from a quadruple-dog dare! I have no son. You must move out from the basement immediately.”

“Chrisius Maximus on October 12, 2007 12:54 pm Thus speaks the coward who backed down from a quadruple-dog dare! Has your family renounced you yet?

I can picture the scene now. Mike’s momz, wracked with sobs: ‘Mike, you backed down from a quadruple-dog dare! I have no son. You must move out from the basement immediately’.”

****

Does Chris even have a family?

I’m not a “coward” like someone who issued a forced apology and calls Paul Goble “nuts,” while ducking valid criticism of his work.

Chris must have shit fits with the English language sections of Kommersant and Regnum.

I actually find it quite refreshing that much of the English language media in Russia does not reflect mainstream Russian views. When I lived in the Middle East, the English language media reflected wholeheartedly the mainstream views of the Arabs. This meant that every editorial was a diatribe against Israel, the US, or the West, in that order of decreasing invective. I don’t know anyone westerner who takes the English newspapers seriously out there.

It’d intersting to see if any differences exist between how the Arabic RTTV covers Middle East versus the English language RTTV.

Excuse the misspelling in my last post.

Kolya, maybe we have met — who knows? As CM has pointed out, Sean actually runs this blog as a public service to bring together long lost friends and relatives:)

CM, yes, thanks; this isn’t the right place for me to discuss my employer! I like them. They let me write whatever I want. I think they are good folks who are trying to do a decent job even if we all fall below the platonic ideal. I just wanted to point out that what may seem to the outside world to be grand policy decisions are actually just a diverse bunch of people struggling against deadlines and in difficult conditions. Tim, you must run into this — being accused of having policy X or Y when actually it’s just that some Sam or Sasha screwed up or something. But then, if the world is divided into conspiracy nuts and cock-up nuts, I’m a cock-up nut. I think people just screw up a lot (including myself).

Now then, boys; I showed mine. Time for you to show yours. CM and Ivanov and Kolya — what do you do? I mean, your professions…

I am a retired Space Ninja.

Also, I used to do just about everything at the Russia Journal (I will not discuss former employers in a public forum, so nobody ask) — copy editing, some journalism, de jure editor of the Citizen, editorial writer, just about everything. And ooh, I wrote the Love Doctor column in LifeStyle. That was fun.

Currently I’m a senior language-editor of scientific journals for Nauka and do occasional editing and translation for various people. Nothing glamorous.

Tim, you must run into this — being accused of having policy X or Y when actually it’s just that some Sam or Sasha screwed up or something.

There’s a quote out there along the lines of Occam’s Razor, which goes something like:

“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.”

Also, I used to do just about everything at the Russia Journal (I will not discuss former employers in a public forum, so nobody ask) — copy editing, some journalism, de jure editor of the Citizen, editorial writer, just about everything.

And doubtlessly preventing the recognition of parallel biases. Don’t forget the parallel biases.

At its zenith, TRJ was an improvement in terms of offering different pespectives to the English language community.

Some fossil fuel related news I just came across:

http://www.serbianna.com/news/2007/02719.shtml

“And ooh, I wrote the Love Doctor column in LifeStyle.” Are you serious? That sounds like fun. I don’t know how you do editing of technical translations. It’s very difficult. Neither the Russian nor the English sounds like real language.

Yes, Tim, that’s a great quote and I tend to agree with it.

MAB wrote:

“if the world is divided into conspiracy
nuts and cock-up nuts, I’m a cock-up nut.
I think people just screw up a lot
(including myself).”

Yep. I’m with you on this one too.

What do I do?

Alas, I’m not an analyst. I’m a farmer now. That is, I have a small organic farm. Before that I was a JD who never practiced law; before that an infantry soldier (became a US citizen while in the Army); before that a field biologist.

that’s interesting — so you were born in the USSR?

“Are you serious? That sounds like fun. I don’t know how you do editing of technical translations. It’s very difficult. Neither the Russian nor the English sounds like real language.”

Oh yeah. I would just make up letters to the Love Doctor and then answer them Love-Doctor style. It was very entertaining.

I don’t have a scientific background (my grad school work was in philosophy) and mainly just look at the language and translation quality. I just finished issue 11 of Zhurnal tekhnicheskoi fiziki. Lots of stuff about the cyclotron at Dubna.

This is actually a quote from Chekhov’s story “Письмо к ученому соседу”.

No wonder I have always found Chekhov distasteful.

“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.”

I heard this referred to as Hanlon’s Razor, but I am a bit afficianado of this one. I have never subscribed to any media conspiracy BS. Personal biases would take this all the way. Why would so many people exhibit similar biases in a given profession is a different story.

I think Tim is quite right – bad news sell. Critique sells better then praize. when I started on my radio show, I was pompously self assured about others being so interested in my comprehensive faculties and priceless opinions. Only later did I realize the value of entertainment.

News are a bit different, but MAB’s explanation is much simplier and thus more realistic. Buyer beware is a principle just as applicable to news as it is applicable to pork chops or cars.

Cyrill

“the English language community.”

This is the first time I have ever heard almost the entire population of North America, the UK, the Republic of Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, and parts of Africa, plus about one in ten Indians, referred to as a “community.”

”Ger, I said dinner guests, not banya companions.

WTF?!! Surely we are supposed to go somewhere after dinner! That’s my choice of Ana, Olga, Tanya, Nadya, and Luda from my office out of my selection then.”

Tim/Lyndon,

there are plenty of other Russkiye dyevushki I’d like to invite!

I know the score Tim with looking at other women whilst married to a Russian – it doesnt go down well! And of course, no Russian women speaks better English than my missus – I got the exact reaction you did! And get it all the time! ”Is HER english better than mine”?
Wrong answer = Paddy cooking his own dinner!

MAB -I’ve been wrecking the wife’s head this evening with all those sayings from this weeks column of yours. Her view is that I should be learning the genitive case properly rather than trying to sound like I have a decent level of Russian!

No wonder I have always found Chekhov distasteful.

Oops, you got me wrong there. It is your version, not mab’s, that is a quote from Chekhov. Except for the comma, of course.

… Вы сочинили и напечатали в своем умном сочинении, как сказал мне Герасимов, что будто бы на самом величайшем светиле, на солнце, есть черные пятнушки. Этого не может быть, потому что этого не может быть никогда. Как Вы могли видеть на солнце пятны, если на солнце нельзя глядеть простыми человеческими глазами, и для чего на нем пятны, если и без них можно обойтиться? Из какого мокрого тела сделаны эти самые пятны, если они не сгорают? Может быть, по-вашему и рыбы живут на солнце? Извените меня дурмана ядовитого, что так глупо сострил!

Darn, well, nobody’s perfect. I still dislike him anyway.

Aha, Ger! If you are sounding like you have a decent level of Russian, then the column worked!

Cyrill, sorry I can’t share your dislike of Chekhov. In fact, he’d be one of my dinner companions.

“Cyrill, sorry I can’t share your dislike of Chekhov. In fact, he’d be one of my dinner companions.”

MAB, He might be a very good occasional dinner companion – nasty, sarcastic, entertaining. I dislike him as an author – always scoffing at petty problems of petty people. It just gets very old real fast for me. Фига в кармане.

To continue the этого vs. это subject, I wonder if there is a trend to wash away and minimize these distinctioins from cases. If the theory of languages moving from synthetic to analytical is correct, and it seems that it is how European languages develop, this might be a case of the Russian language experiencing a minor analogy of what happened to English after the Normann conquest when the culture had to absorb a huge influx of foreign words and concepts that it could not adequately digest. Pressure from transliterated anaptotic words might cause deflexion across the board.

Wrong answer = Paddy cooking his own dinner!

LOL!

Her view is that I should be learning the genitive case properly rather than trying to sound like I have a decent level of Russian!

Learn the genitive case properly?!! Yeah, why not cure AIDS whilst your at it?

Wait a second, didn’t English (I guess Anglo-Saxon at the time) suffer its serious grammatical change — loss of most of the case system — before the Norman conquest, which basically just added a lot of vocabulary from French? My understanding was that it was Norse influence that caused the loss of the cases. (Norse has cases up the wazoo, but they overlap with the Anglo-Saxon ones and so cause confusion — a genitive ending in Anglo-Saxon is the same as a dative ending in Norse. Or that is what I have been led to believe.)

“I know the score Tim with looking at other women whilst married to a Russian – it doesnt go down well! And of course, no Russian women speaks better English than my missus – I got the exact reaction you did! And get it all the time! ”Is HER english better than mine”?”

This is so true. I live with two women (one Russian and one French). There is nothing and has never been anything romantic or sexual between is whatsoever. We just help each other pay the rent. However this has caused so many problems with women I’ve dated I don’t like to think about it. My last girlfriend and I broke up in large part because she refused to come over because of them.

Cyrill, some русисты posit that Russian may be gradually moving from synthetic to analytical, possibly accelerated by English borrowings and advertising. Do you like how tentative that sentence is? It’s hard to say. I was taught that a negative always takes the genitive case, and was surprised when a colleague corrected an academic text we were working on to eliminate the genitive because it sounded a bit “too bookish.” Sigh. Plus companies don’t want to decline their name (wrecks brand recognition), or complicate the tag line with extra words and quotation marks, so ads say пейте кола. Yikes! My guess in a few years kids will say я читал Война и Мир.

MAB, you asked:

“so you were born in the USSR?”

No. I was born in Venezuela in a Russian speaking household. Both my parents were kids of the “first wave” of emigres. I’m one of those peculiar people who doesn’t really have a native language. I speak all the languages I know (Russian, English and Spanish) imperfectly and with an accent. Part of it is that I don’t have a natural facility for languages.

Plus companies don’t want to decline their name (wrecks brand recognition), or complicate the tag line with extra words and quotation marks, so ads say пейте кола.

I thought proper nouns were indeclinable anyway, hence you say “В гостиницe Россия”, not “В гостиницe Россий”.

Then again, find me two Russians who agree on how the language should be spoken.

My guess in a few years kids will say я читал Война и Мир.

I’d not worry about that so much. I’d be more concerned they’ll only know how to say Я смотрел Дом 2.

Tim yeah, you’re supposed to decline the hotel or whatever, then put the undeclined proper noun in quotes, or decline the proper noun. So you are supposed to say я читал роман “Война и мир” or я читал Войну и мир. I can’t put my hands on it, but someone sent me a list of brand names that aren’t being declined or qualified. I dunno. This is probably boring as hell to everyone. Languages change (mostly to get simpler), so there’s not much you can do about it. I whine just because, like everyone else, I struggled to learn this stuff right and now IT DOESN’T MATTER. They changed the rules. Gosh, those Russians:)

And yeah, you can tell my bookish habits. A lot of kids are not reading the Great Authors these days.

Kolya — interesting. I’m second generation myself, but my parents were the kind of 1st generation kids who tried to become real Americans, so unfortunately I didn’t learn Russian at home. Actually, I’m half Lemko and half Ukrainian, but my grandparents spoke Russian for reasons that no one now can explain.

“Lemko”?

Lots of mongrels on this here blog, with both Lyndon, Ger, and me arranging our maritals in a way which can only produce yet more.

I’m not sure of my ancestry, my parents and their parents are all English, so I’m guessing they’re all English for some way back. Whatever they were, they would have been from the dung-gathering caste, or suchlike, not nobility. My interest in Russia comes not from family connection, but from being collared by a stunningly attractive girl once night in a bar in Dubai.

Jeez, don’t you Romans keep track of the nations you conquer?!
It’s a small Transcarpathian ethnic group. Remember the wedding scene in The Deerhunter? It took place in Lemko Hall — a lot of my great and noble fellow countrymen and countrywomen settled in Pennsylvania, where the film was shot.

“My interest in Russia comes not from family connection, but from being collared by a stunningly attractive girl once night in a bar in Dubai.” I have an English friend who also owes his life in Russia to a beautiful Russian woman. I think the gov’t should pass out awards. These women sure have done more to improve the image of Russia than Ketchem has.

These women sure have done more to improve the image of Russia than Ketchem has.

Actually, this girl was a prostitute, and conformed to all the accompanying stereotypes. Plus she was from Uzbekistan, not Russia, although she was half-Russian and living in Tatarstan at the time. Fortunately, my adventures into Russia left her by the wayside early on, but it was her that provided me with the excuse to visit in the first place.

“Jeez, don’t you Romans keep track of the nations you conquer?!”

They are all basically barbarians, worthy only to submit to Caesar. Gaul, Celt, Egyptian, German — what’s the difference really? They are all merely potential subjects.

By an odd coincidence, I also owe my interest in Russia to a woman, but far from being a prostitute she was an economist at the World Bank.

Gaul…

Well, not all Gaul…

“Well, not all Gaul…”

Asterix is revisionist history! It’s the French trying to make themselves feel better. In the real world their “magic potion” was just high-quality beer.

Hm. Someone should do a dissertation on the Role of Women in Russification and Partial Russification of Previously Uninformed Non-Russian Men.

Why not the role of men in Russifying women? It does happen you know.

I do know (:))) but it’s less numerically and generally less successful. (I mean most of the marriages/relationships are between foreign men and Russian women.) Why? Not the subject of this blog, but perhaps a topic for the LoveDoctor to analyze.

Now then, boys; I showed mine. Time for you to show yours. CM and Ivanov and Kolya — what do you do? I mean, your professions…
Born in the CCCP, detsad, schkola, institut, then …. almost like Peshkov except I don’t write books.
And I was living in Russia longer than you, mab.
“Was” as know I’m living abroad. For no other reason that I like this place. And it’s exactly what you are looking for

Never played music/sang songs.

PS. You were wrong saying “wrong-wrong-wrong”. I’ve never said neither thought that way. You might be about something like 0.01 wrong only )

I think it’s partly because for a Russian man to marry a non-Russian is sort of “marrying down,” societally speaking. Almost all of the mixed marriages I know amoung rossiyane are between a Russian woman and a Tatar, Jewish, Ingush, whatever, man.

Is Ivanov Gilligan?

Well, Ivanov is certainly mysterious. Is there some reason why we cannot know what magnificent island you are on, Mr Ivanov? I’m imagining palm trees and silly drinks with paper umbrellas, but then it’s +5 and pouring rain in the столица нашей родины and all I can think of is palm trees and silly drinks. Hm.

CM, who is Gilligan? If you are talking about our Sergeant – this means we had been in same unit of Space Ninja. Yn234HG12-b (I still remember this number!)
Or is this another Gilligan?

I’m imagining palm trees and silly drinks with paper umbrellas,
This time your are wrong, wrong, wrong…
This is not Christmas island.

But this is very easy place to live. I don’t want to name it as all others will come here – and my paradise will end.

PS. It’s +5 and rain now (hope this makes you feel better)