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	<title>Comments on: More on the Attack in Angarsk</title>
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	<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2007/07/24/more-on-the-attack-in-angarsk/</link>
	<description>Russia Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow</description>
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		<title>By: Russophile</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2007/07/24/more-on-the-attack-in-angarsk/comment-page-1/#comment-5424</link>
		<dc:creator>Russophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=408#comment-5424</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I don&#039;t see any commercial dispute there. Between whom? Eco-groups have no commercial interests. And their threat to commercial interest of &quot;big boys&quot; is less that zero.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Certainly, someone locally or regionally stands to make a huge sum of money from a uranium enrichment plant.  Of course, the protesters were little threat, but they were also weak targets of little risk that may have become just a little too annoying. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The &quot;zakazchik&quot; does not need to deal with 15. He only needs to deal with  the leader of the group who turned his minions lose and neither were present at the attack. If they ever tracked the organization back to the leader, he would never rat on the &quot;zakazchik&quot; because he would not last another day. Anyways, there would be zero proof ever tying the organization back to the business interests.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Also, I doubt they were supposed to kill anyone, but just got out of hand. Besides, most will likely only get a short prison sentence since it will be impossible to say who of the 15 actually did the killing.  And most will take their prison sentence as a badge off honor. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If it was not a purchased attack, then what was the reasoning?  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Obviously and admittedly, I will never be able to prove my theory. And if I did have evidence, I certainly would not tell anyone about it if I cared to live. That is the kind of info that makes the ceiling in your podyezd the last view you ever see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I don&#8217;t see any commercial dispute there. Between whom? Eco-groups have no commercial interests. And their threat to commercial interest of &#8220;big boys&#8221; is less that zero.</i></p>
<p>Certainly, someone locally or regionally stands to make a huge sum of money from a uranium enrichment plant.  Of course, the protesters were little threat, but they were also weak targets of little risk that may have become just a little too annoying. </p>
<p>The &#8220;zakazchik&#8221; does not need to deal with 15. He only needs to deal with  the leader of the group who turned his minions lose and neither were present at the attack. If they ever tracked the organization back to the leader, he would never rat on the &#8220;zakazchik&#8221; because he would not last another day. Anyways, there would be zero proof ever tying the organization back to the business interests.</p>
<p>Also, I doubt they were supposed to kill anyone, but just got out of hand. Besides, most will likely only get a short prison sentence since it will be impossible to say who of the 15 actually did the killing.  And most will take their prison sentence as a badge off honor. </p>
<p>If it was not a purchased attack, then what was the reasoning?  </p>
<p>Obviously and admittedly, I will never be able to prove my theory. And if I did have evidence, I certainly would not tell anyone about it if I cared to live. That is the kind of info that makes the ceiling in your podyezd the last view you ever see.</p>
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		<title>By: ivanov</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2007/07/24/more-on-the-attack-in-angarsk/comment-page-1/#comment-5417</link>
		<dc:creator>ivanov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=408#comment-5417</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It does not surprise me at all that a neo-nazi group could be hired for settling a &lt;b&gt;commercial dispute.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Russophile, I don&#039;t see any commercial dispute there. Between whom? Eco-groups have no commercial interests. And their threat to commercial interest of &quot;big boys&quot; is less that zero. At least in form of camps.&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Big boys&quot; are not such idiots to hire real idiots to attack this kind of &quot;opponents&quot;. If just a word would leak - and it would with so many idiots involved - this would make more trouble for &quot;zakazchik&quot; than theoretical benefits from scaring ecologists.&lt;br/&gt;There are much more effective and bulletproof methods - like &quot;buying&quot; those people in government agencies who decide where and what should be built, stored, disposed etc.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;That is indeed what I think happened during the attack on ... market in ..... The skinheads were paid by rivals of the market to bust up the place.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is example of &quot;commercial dispute&quot;. And it was cheaper and faster to use force to push your &quot;rival&quot; off the market than trying to do in any legal or semi-legal manner. But this is another matter. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It&#039;s like battle between dung-beetles. &lt;br/&gt;And in first case it&#039;s a fly against elephant really. Why should elephant bother what flies  are &quot;thinking&quot;?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;PS. 15 people arrested already. It shouldn&#039;t be a problem to &quot;break&quot; these guys. They are too many. So few always start talking fast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It does not surprise me at all that a neo-nazi group could be hired for settling a <b>commercial dispute.</b></i></p>
<p>Russophile, I don&#8217;t see any commercial dispute there. Between whom? Eco-groups have no commercial interests. And their threat to commercial interest of &#8220;big boys&#8221; is less that zero. At least in form of camps.<br />&#8220;Big boys&#8221; are not such idiots to hire real idiots to attack this kind of &#8220;opponents&#8221;. If just a word would leak &#8211; and it would with so many idiots involved &#8211; this would make more trouble for &#8220;zakazchik&#8221; than theoretical benefits from scaring ecologists.<br />There are much more effective and bulletproof methods &#8211; like &#8220;buying&#8221; those people in government agencies who decide where and what should be built, stored, disposed etc.</p>
<p><i>That is indeed what I think happened during the attack on &#8230; market in &#8230;.. The skinheads were paid by rivals of the market to bust up the place.</i></p>
<p>This is example of &#8220;commercial dispute&#8221;. And it was cheaper and faster to use force to push your &#8220;rival&#8221; off the market than trying to do in any legal or semi-legal manner. But this is another matter. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s like battle between dung-beetles. <br />And in first case it&#8217;s a fly against elephant really. Why should elephant bother what flies  are &#8220;thinking&#8221;?</p>
<p>PS. 15 people arrested already. It shouldn&#8217;t be a problem to &#8220;break&#8221; these guys. They are too many. So few always start talking fast.</p>
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		<title>By: Chrisius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2007/07/24/more-on-the-attack-in-angarsk/comment-page-1/#comment-5415</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrisius Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=408#comment-5415</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the stereotypical inner city gang member, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the stereotypical inner city gang member, too.</p>
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		<title>By: W. Shedd</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2007/07/24/more-on-the-attack-in-angarsk/comment-page-1/#comment-5413</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Shedd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=408#comment-5413</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The neo-nazi groups are like the sports clubs of the early 90s -- a group of guys with lots of energy and testosterone but short on money&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There are probably many groups within Russia that feed upon such guys.  Young men full of piss and vinegar with nothing specific to do with their time and energies.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Actually, not only within Russia. Isn&#039;t this also the stereotypical terrorist?  Or stereotypical protester in France (remember the burning of the cars in Paris suburbs)?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It is probably an underappreciated social problem in underemployed regions of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The neo-nazi groups are like the sports clubs of the early 90s &#8212; a group of guys with lots of energy and testosterone but short on money</i></p>
<p>There are probably many groups within Russia that feed upon such guys.  Young men full of piss and vinegar with nothing specific to do with their time and energies.  </p>
<p>Actually, not only within Russia. Isn&#8217;t this also the stereotypical terrorist?  Or stereotypical protester in France (remember the burning of the cars in Paris suburbs)?</p>
<p>It is probably an underappreciated social problem in underemployed regions of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Chrisius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2007/07/24/more-on-the-attack-in-angarsk/comment-page-1/#comment-5411</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrisius Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=408#comment-5411</guid>
		<description>That is indeed what I think happened during the attack on the Tsaritsy (sp?) market in 2001 (2002?). The skinheads were paid by rivals of the market to bust up the place. This is what most Russians I know think of that attack as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is indeed what I think happened during the attack on the Tsaritsy (sp?) market in 2001 (2002?). The skinheads were paid by rivals of the market to bust up the place. This is what most Russians I know think of that attack as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Russophile</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2007/07/24/more-on-the-attack-in-angarsk/comment-page-1/#comment-5409</link>
		<dc:creator>Russophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=408#comment-5409</guid>
		<description>It does not surprise me at all that a neo-nazi group could be hired for settling a commercial dispute. That was my initial assessment posted on my site. To those who stand to make *lots* of money on such a disposal deal, this is just a commercial dispute with a annoying but weak opponent.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The neo-nazi groups are like the sports clubs of the early 90s -- a group of guys with lots of energy and testosterone but short on money. Killing African students does not pay for vodka or provide local political cover, but doing a bang up job for a business would certainly pay and might provide local connections that would allow the group to perform other primary goal activities with impunity. To me, it is logical that a neo-nazi group would agree to perform &quot;jobs&quot; such as this.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Before anyone posts so, I am not agreeing with these methods or supporting the groups involved, I am simply pointing out reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does not surprise me at all that a neo-nazi group could be hired for settling a commercial dispute. That was my initial assessment posted on my site. To those who stand to make *lots* of money on such a disposal deal, this is just a commercial dispute with a annoying but weak opponent.</p>
<p>The neo-nazi groups are like the sports clubs of the early 90s &#8212; a group of guys with lots of energy and testosterone but short on money. Killing African students does not pay for vodka or provide local political cover, but doing a bang up job for a business would certainly pay and might provide local connections that would allow the group to perform other primary goal activities with impunity. To me, it is logical that a neo-nazi group would agree to perform &#8220;jobs&#8221; such as this.  </p>
<p>Before anyone posts so, I am not agreeing with these methods or supporting the groups involved, I am simply pointing out reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Guillory</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2007/07/24/more-on-the-attack-in-angarsk/comment-page-1/#comment-5406</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Guillory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the translation mab.  I will make the necessary corrections.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is the first I&#039;ve heard of skins being hired like this.  The only other incident where this was suspected was when a group of footballisty &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://seansrusskiiblog.blogspot.com/2005/10/puppeteers-and-puppets.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;raided a meeting&lt;/a&gt; of the AKM, Komsomol, and Natsbols in 2005.  It was suspected that Nashi hired them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the translation mab.  I will make the necessary corrections.</p>
<p>This is the first I&#8217;ve heard of skins being hired like this.  The only other incident where this was suspected was when a group of footballisty <a HREF="http://seansrusskiiblog.blogspot.com/2005/10/puppeteers-and-puppets.html" REL="nofollow">raided a meeting</a> of the AKM, Komsomol, and Natsbols in 2005.  It was suspected that Nashi hired them.</p>
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		<title>By: mab</title>
		<link>http://seansrussiablog.org/2007/07/24/more-on-the-attack-in-angarsk/comment-page-1/#comment-5405</link>
		<dc:creator>mab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seansrussiablog.org/?p=408#comment-5405</guid>
		<description>???????????? ???????? = a business turf war, i.e. the skinheads are used when two businesses are squabbling or shooting it out over commercial interests.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Yuck. Skinheads for hire. That seems like a relatively new development. Well, I guess a pumped up thug is happy for a fight...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>???????????? ???????? = a business turf war, i.e. the skinheads are used when two businesses are squabbling or shooting it out over commercial interests.</p>
<p>Yuck. Skinheads for hire. That seems like a relatively new development. Well, I guess a pumped up thug is happy for a fight&#8230;</p>
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